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Trainer aircrafts of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HTT-36 Sitara, BAE Hawk

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by R!CK, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    True but I think we can put such fears away, HAL has shown their ability to keep their products relevent and to refine/update them with time.
     
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  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Have you checked htt-40 features? It's better than PC-7 offering at a lower cost.

    Same flawed mentally of Airforce over the history.

    We are not impressed with HAL. What are our options.
    1. Encourage and help private sector to make one.
    2. Import
    We choose import because it's easy.
    But no one said us it will take 6-7 years to sign the documents!.

    Manohar parikar is the reason for HTT-40 orders.
     
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  3. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Since the Aero Eco system is in place... We can update and sustain it.
    We wouldn't let go again... One or other aero projects will be always ON.
     
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  4. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    the IAF complained about some spin issues. I wonder where that places HTT40 with respect to PC-7. maybe @vstol jockey can throw some light on it?

    I wouldnt count on it. Give one term to some Lalu or some Antony as defence minister and we are doomed for another 30 years. incompetence is abundant in our top echelons of decision makers.

    the ALH was a good story - we now have that bird in the hundreds. I am guessing we will reach a 1000 of those in the next decade. but fixed wing hasnt been HAL's success area so far with the forces.
     
  5. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Stall and spin test is scheduled for July-aug. Unlike IJT it was taken in to account from the design process itself.
     
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  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    HTT-40 has already been spun. Spin is not so much of a problem for prop aircraft as it is for jet powered aircraft due to blanking of intakes which deprives air to engine causing them to stall. The design issues for single fin aircraft for recovery from spin are well documented. If you design it within those parameters, the aircraft will have no issues. Plus, HTT-40 is a nose heavy aircraft which will not have tendency to spin in a flat attitude like aircraft with low positive static stability or RSS or Negative stability. A higher nose down attitude during spin is desired for easy recovery.
    When I had seen the pictures of HTT-40, I had given it a clear thumbs up and the aircraft is a superior product to Pilatus junk that we are flying today.
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    There areally several mistakes!

    1. Yes IAF luckily has options, which is good for the protection of the country

    2. IAF and MoD under A.K. Antony had opened up towards privat industry, which however doesn't effect HAL or HTT40 and not even the current government were able to get a profit oriented industry to make more efforts towards indigenous arms, which is why they now more or less kill DPSUs and make way for privat companies under the DPP 2016 and SPM.

    3. Look how fast the PC7 deal was struck and how fast the delivery was finished. IAF certainly did the right thing there!

    4. Wrong, A.K. Antony is the reason for HTT40, because he approved HAL to go on with the development, against IAF's advice!

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130815/main6.htm

    Without that incentive, the development could had been killed by then. And as I said, without the IJT failure, there wouldn't be a requirement for HTT40 today either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Check for team Interview by anantha Krishnan where they explain what happened.In 2013 Antony approved to go ahead with HAL funds not MoD, no brainer decision. Manohar parikar did monthly review of the project till first flight. Then order for 74 was placed but IAF was still crying for more PC-7.
    Because trainer was suddenly grounded. MoD had no other options.
    The same people rejected development of new trainer in 90s.

    Every country have options to buy basic trainer from outside. :biggthumpup:
     
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The funds were HALs because there was no requirement of IAF, but HAL is state owned and couldn't had gone forward, without Antony's approval.
    Just that he wouldn't had been able to check on the development, if Antony didn't had pushed it. Also Parrikar ordered the rest of the PC7s according to IAFs wishes, but went on with HTT40 because of the lack of IJT, again with approval of IAF.
     
  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    I doubt it will get anyhwere near 1000 bro, not unless it is produced for the next 20 years but I think sooner rather than later HAL will move on to a new utility helo in the 5.5 ton class, we should be happy if/when the ALH crosses 400 units.

    The LUH though WILL cross 1000 units mark my words*:D


    *that too within 15-17 years
    Next 2-3 years will change these matters.
     
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  11. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    i meant 1000 units of all rotary wing craft that HAL produced - ALH, LCH, LUH
     
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  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Easily going to be more than 1500 units by 2035; 1000 LUH, 300+ LCH and 400+ ALH plus another 150-200 IMRH.


    Also expect HAL to produce another product (in the 7.5-9t class around 2025ish).
     
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  13. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Why we decided to develop LCA In 1983 ?

    We should have started with basic trainers ..

    Can't we have someone in the caliber of Kalam to oversee and develop the aeronautical industry ?
     
  14. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    what do you expect to achieve when you
    1) pay them scientists peanuts, and
    2) promote people based on their caste and reservation instead of merit,
    3) have recommendation candidates flood the top and mid management,
    4) constantly derail and berate any achievements that these scientist do by holding them up to irrational standards
    5) have illiterate politicians at the helm of affairs who only think of making money through bribes
    6) give no incentive to private players and instead ask for bribes to win contracts

    There are already a lot of silent kalams working in our PSUs. only that they are quietly wishing that they move away to greener pastures. Unless we change this status quo and give them the respect and renumeration they deserve.

    look at @vstol jockey for example. even if his fighter does not fly or not approved, at least give some recognition for the amount of hard work put in. When you dont do that, how long do you expect them to last?
     
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  15. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I too know that well...
    Thone corrections need quiet a lot of steps..

    I wish a gentlemen who is selfless given the chair to just guide them with directions..
    Like kalam did with integerated missile development programmes . .. which ultimately gave us the successful industry. .
     

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