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Transport Aircrafts of IAF - C-130J, C-17 Globemaster, C295: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by hotstud69, May 1, 2010.

  1. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    C-130J is the real workhorse, huh 16 on order? I thought intial 6, 1 lost to crash to be replaced with another 1 + 6 more ordered right? C-130J has already proven invaluable during the scores of rescue missions it flew during heavy floods and earthquakes.
     
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  2. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    Happened in December .... this is February:hitwall:

    Such incidents rarely get reported. So either is was reported by someone with a big mouth or someone with an axe to grind.

    I do understand what the tempo of their flying is. It happens and THOISE is extremely difficult an airfield.
     
  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    opps my bad ... Meant 7 additional!
     
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  4. Levina

    Levina Admin- Social media Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Mystery behind repeated C-130/C-17 mishaps cleared



    February 21st saw a C-130J Super Hercules while taxi-ing for a night sortie at the Thoisie ALG in Ladakh instead of taking-off, run smack into a solid structure, nearly shearing off part of a wing and an outer turboprop engine requiring major expenditure to make the plane fit again. That this plane had the CO of the Hindon-based 77 Squadron, a presumably experienced transport pilot, one Grp Cpt Jasveen Singh Chathrath, at the controls only makes it worse. Three years back on March 28, 2014, another of this type of airlifter on a low level Special Forces’ drop training sortie proved that in IAF hands, it is neither super nor Hercules, leave alone ‘super Hercules’, when it dove into the ground killing the entire crew. This sorry record of IAF’s trouble with sophisticated transporters lit up again when a couple of years ago a C-17 Globemaster flew straight into a hill, again with the CO of that Unit commanding that flight.

    After the 2014 C-130 accident, the statement by the air chief at the time Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said the service had picked the best pilots to take charge of these American planes. If this is the level of aircraft handling ability of the best IAF transport pilots, then speculating about the averagely competent pilot’s ability (or lack of it) beggars the imagination.

    But let’s tally the cost of the mishaps. The first lot of six C-130s were bought from Lockheed for Rs 6,000 crores, or a cool Rs 1,000 crore per plane. With one of these aircraft already lost, IAF has already had to write off Rs 1,000 crores. Not to be deterred, IAF means to buy a second lot of eight Super Hercules and, after a decent interval to give the Exchequer time to recover, a third lot of 6 aircraft for a fleet strength, minus the lost C-130, of 19 aircraft in all.

    Ten C-17s were purchased for Rs 18,645 crores from Boeing, so the loss of one Globemaster cost the country, just for the hardware, the unit price of some Rs. 1,865 crores. Fortunately, Boeing has closed down the C-17 production line. So IAF-cum-Govt of India’s apparent default option of buying C-17s and C-130Js more to keep Washington pleased and the two US aviation majors in a happy state of anticipating richer deals in the offing, than because acquiring more and more of such aircraft makes any military, economic, or even political sense — is a line I have taken in previous writings. Especially, as the IAF chiefs have time and again disavowed any expeditionary role for the Indian military, which is what these planes do best. In the event, if all that was required of these aircraft was to lift troops from one sector to another, the IAF could, surely, have made do with the more economical workhorses to-date, the An-12s and An-32s.

    The CAG in its 2014 Report was harsh on the parties involved, slamming Boeing for not fulfilling its offsets commitments — no simulators and ground equipment, such as fork lifts, were set up on Indian air bases, the IAF for not preparing the Hindon tarmac and the potential landing grounds elsewhere to the level of the required Pavement Classification Number, and implicitly both the GOI and IAF for not making any fuss whatsoever about the US Company not delivering on its contract obligations. The CAG also pointed out that owing to the absence of special forklifts on all the potential bases and LGs, the Super Hercules was compelled to carry one in its belly wherever it landed or took off from, but it took so much internal aircraft space — fully 35% of the cargo hold, that instead of just one sortie to carry a full load, two sorties were needed to do the job. And that cost money. The CAG calculated that it costs India Rs 43.19 lakh for every hour a C-130 is in the air. Post-CAG Report, whatever else was done or not done, Lockheed hurriedly setup a C-130 simulator near Delhi. It is not known if just one simulator is all that has been paid for, and whether the C-17 buy too mandated a Globemaster simulator in India which, perhaps, is not considering there were originally six and now only 5 of the C-17s remain, which number does not justify a simulator.

    Like in the adventure — “Silver Blaze”, where Sherlock Holmes solved the mystery of the missing horse by referring to the fact of the non-barking dog in the stable (who recognized the miscreant as his master and didn’t raise hell), the mystery about why the Indian government did not cry foul and penalize Lockheed, is also easily solved. New Delhi (previously run by Manmohan Singh and now by Narendra Modi) as mentioned wants to be on the right side of the US because America is viewed as the vehicle for India to ride to economic prosperity and technological Valhalla! Remember too that the Lockheed F-16 and Boeing F-18 are on the short list of the proposed buy of 200 single-engined combat aircraft. But the matter of the unfulfilled offsets is of the gravest concern particularly because foreign suppliers, while ready to pocket the contract, are aware that GOI will do nothing if they fail to follow-through. In previous posts the fact of all kinds of exctraneous expenditures being counted as offsets has ben mentioned. Thus, the cost of seminars and conferences has been encompassed in the offsets cost. And it is very likely that Boeing and Lockheed charged the offsets account for the use of their simulators in the US to train C-17 and C-130 pilots, etc., even as the main purpose of the offsets to help build up an industrial-technological base goes unrealized. Then again, why should foreign companies deliver when there’s not a squeal out of the govt if they don’t?

    The IAF, on its part, would have been pleased to carry on doing what it had done prior to the installation of the simulator here post-CAG Report : Send pilot crews in relays to train on Boeing simulators in Seattle an Lockheed simulators some place else in the US at additional expense (if nothing else in terms of extra pilot hard currency allowances and stipends for stays abroad). Why is lacing the selected transport pilots’ careers with nice little holidays in the American Northwest to uplift their spirits, not a good thing, is IAF’s thinking, given that the poor chaps cannot strut around back home like the fighter-jocks, who also hog all the plum posts in the service.


    @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @anant_s @randomradio @nair @Hellfire @Agent_47 @Roybot and everyone else.

    @Ankit Kumar 001
     
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  5. OnePunchMan

    OnePunchMan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    when the **** did we loose a friggin globemaster is this guy for real??????????
     
  6. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Bharat Karnad is now a certified idiot.

    There was NEVER any C-17 accident. The one that flew into a hill during low-level flight training was a C-130J (the first & only loss of IAF SuperHerc aircraft). The most recent accident in Thoise (in December 2016) is not a write-off, the plane will be back in service by next month (April).

    The training & support infrastructure for both C-17 and C-130J are excellent in India.

    Accidents still happen regardless of the presence or lack of simulators (otherwise American Globemasters and Hercs would never have crashed) - but that's a non-issue because these planes are some of the best-maintained and best-supported fleets in IAF and their availability rate is top-notch.

    What rubbish...IAF has 10 C-17s and all of them are operational. We'll probably be acquiring 1 more sometime in future (actually wanted to buy 3 more, but production line was closed). And there's no such thing as number being too low to justify a simulator. Even if we have only 1 Globemaster, Boeing is obligated to properly support the product throughout it's lifetime (or until sanctions happen). That's how even countries operating only 1 or 2 C-17s like Kuwait or Qatar are able to keep them in top condition.

    Yes, he's real. A real NUMBNUT.
     
  7. Levina

    Levina Admin- Social media Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Lolz

    He prolly heard it through a grapevine.
     
  8. OnePunchMan

    OnePunchMan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    ai ai ai ai ai ai these so called journalist aren't even qualified to blog let alone talk about defence matters.
    i worry about the future of my nation:facepalm::frust::cry:
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Please...don't disrespect such a great man...after all he is -

    [​IMG]

    :LMAO::LMAO::LMAO:

    EDIT: I just checked..."Geostrategics" is not a word in the dictionary. :dude:
     
  10. OnePunchMan

    OnePunchMan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    :fuu::fuu::fuu::fuu:
     
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  11. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    :hmm:
     
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  12. nair

    nair Die hard Romeo Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    The guy cannot differentiate between C130 and C 17 aircrafts is writing an article......
     
  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Good he did NT say airport has some "vastu" issues so there was a mishap...

    On topic just one thing.. among all his rant he did touch a significant point about most biggies cheating India in terms of offsets and always giving us a raw deal in offset implementation..

    Strangely inspite of all this, our Media folks tend to not cover that aspect and stress how India is duped billion of dollars.. the likes of LM and Boeing are very shrewd folks.. the offset negotiated and implementation is basically useless as it's never on time and what is given is portrayed as a very big thing whereas it's nothing really.. yet our Media licks their boots...

    Sad but then I believe it's better to blame the "vastu" over such big major blunders..
     
  14. OnePunchMan

    OnePunchMan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Bullroar that can't possibly be true the guy is the foremost conservative strategist of india lol and self proclaimed geostrategic too surely you are wrong /S
     
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  15. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    He was high when it was lost:alcoholic:
     
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