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Transport Aircrafts of IAF - C-130J, C-17 Globemaster, C295: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by hotstud69, May 1, 2010.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Even if we had the option to buy ten extra now it will cost $4-5 billion.

    Can we spare that kind of money immediately? I don't think so. These planes are very costly and transport aircrafts are not our priority.

    Plus, Il-76 upgrade will give it 20 year additional life not 10.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    The proposed sale will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

    That single line from
    @Sancho post is most important @Abingdonboy and thats why i dont like US weapons in frontline... The only option was this transport fleet...

    C17 gone,,, officially lets not think more on this.. But i can say confidently those planes perform awesome and much better than what we have ...

    Its still time left to go for C130 XJ and make that version with TATA under MII... The stripped down C130 will hold much more and its very rugged .. good for our transport and forward bases /ALG fleet movement..

    We also need to ger at least 30-40 more Chinooks.. THe only challenge is Chinook kind of does not have much defensive stuff.. So may be replace it with 20 odd V22 Osprey and do a JV with Boeing for a 4 engine tilt rotor for future or next 50 years needs..

    [​IMG]
    Thats just a CGI above..

    But concept wise quad copter can hold much more, do better and it has big space for defensive purposes, EWs and even gun turrents in all sides.. That can be an ideal Chinook and V22 replacement .. and this keeps Boeing also involved with India.

    So basically C130 XJ + C295 + V22 Quad Copter tilt rotor + Chinooks can be a good combination...

    Basically the tilt rotors are clearly needed for deep insertion and ALG/ Forward base purposes.

    Also remember there is a modification for V22 to carry bombs and limited light weapons for Anti Submarine and Anti Shipping roles.. So a quad copter tilt rotor can be an awesome addition to our Carriers, Destroyers, LPD/LHD and even amphibious forces

    Basically we must come out with a clear vision of what our proposed transport fleet needs is over next 50 years and start plugging gaps and fund also the development program..

    And please lets not get HAL MTA into this...Let HAL finish what it has on its hands and then dwell on more fancy toys.. There is nothing wrong in using Transport fleet from imported mode.. But use as much possible frontline Jets from Domestic MIC and keep it out of control from others.. Sadly till our MIC matures we have no option to depend on this also from Import route only.
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes that stood out for me as well and showed, where the limit in US support is. The same limit that I expect in terms of weapons for US fighters and why long range A2G missiles might not be available, just as armed drones, stealth fighters or credible technology.
    However, we have to keep pushing this relationship to get the best possible deal, ifor it suits our interests
     
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  4. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    [​IMG]
    Indian Air Force's new C-130J-30 Super Hercules aircraft on their way to India.
    The new aircraft are part of the second order of the 7 C-130J-30s for the second squadron of the type.
    Image credits: Hugo Guerra
     
  5. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    These are nice, but what I really want is to find a way to pick up more C-17's. Maybe use the newfound friendship with America to buy some off of them.

    Or perhaps generously compensate the Gulf Arabs for some of theirs, since for them it hardly matters what hardware they're using when it's 99% for show anyways.
     
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  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    The C-130J and C-17 are very different animals and both are required by India in significant numbers (far more than are on order/in service). The C-130J presents a rather unique capability to operate right up to the frontlines/foreward areas which is particuarly useful in the Eastern sector.

    This is the only way foreward and it's frustrating we haven't heard any official mention of talks in this direction so far. India is the largest operator of the C-17 outside of the US so there simply aren't any other nations with the surplus units, the US on the other hand has significant stocks of the a/c and the USAF were even forced to take more than they had orginally planned to induct by Congress (to keep the Long Beach plant running).

    Sadly, the ONLY option on the table for India is to get second hand models, such is the stupidity of the IAF/MOD.
     
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  7. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  8. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Yup, a HUGE oversight by the babus and IAF brass, Boeing was literally begging for more orders and making it well known to all that the production was coming to an end, there are no excuses- the nation was, once again, failed by the very people employed to take care of its interests.

    I fear this is going to come back and bite India in the rear in the years to come....
     
  9. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I understand, the C-130J is an excellent machine in its own right, and I'm glad we're going for more. It's got an absolutely crucial role to play for the IAF. But that's not really a problem because the line is still open, so as long as India doesn't take ages to clear the funds, they can have as many as they desire. Unlike the situation with the C-17 where the leadership made an absolute mess of it.

    Yup, it's ridiculous that they landed us in this position, and they should promptly get to work on securing second hand ones from the US now that there's no other option.
     
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  10. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There is one other potential solution; if there is enough of a demand for these aircraft, including a substantial guaranteed order by India, perhaps they could shift the closed production line to India under MII?
     
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  11. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I doubt it, first most of the technical people that worked on the plane have moved on. You need those guys to train HAL or whoever makes the craft. Second it would be absurdly expensive restarting a production line. Also engine and avionics would still be produced in the USA.
     
  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Interestingly there is a precedent for this (albeit on a smaller scale) with the M777- the production line was closed years before India signed for them. The deal India eventually got had AIT in-country (with Mahindra) so it's fair to say that where there is a will there is a way and that these companies maintain requisite skill, expertise and infrastructure to get things up and running again.

    Whilst it might be technically feasible I don't know if it is economically feasible, the demand in India is for maybe another 20-30 units over the next decade and perhaps another 20 beyond that- is this enough to transfer the relevent tooling,create the infrastructure and skilled workforce in India for such a complex and massive peice of equipment? India would have to be very smart and start talks with other C-17 (or potetential) users around the world to see if there was enough combined demand to justify such a MAMMOTH capital investement.


    No problem with that really, much of the critical elements of the M777 (like the barell) are still made in the US.
     
  13. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  14. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    The IAF have already started to look at the A400M and may be forced to go down this route post-2025 but with about half the payload of the C-17 and turboprops it is not really a suitable substitute for the C-17 :(

    It sits somewhere between the C-130 and C-17:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    + To be based at AFS Arjun Singh in WB, home of the IA's new MSC.
     
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