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Transport Aircrafts of IAF - C-130J, C-17 Globemaster, C295: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by hotstud69, May 1, 2010.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I don't think we have immediate requirements for new transport planes compared to fighters.

    In long term we should be working on developing a plane similar to MTA/C130J. It can be done, we have enough time. But have to start now.
    For IL-76 replacement category i would love to see collaboration with Antonov for An-70. They are desperate for customers. We could share IPs and make a custom build with western parts. It will be very cheap compared to A400 or C17, There will be a significant market.

    Even the brain dead Saudis are using the opportunity to partner with Antonov.

    [​IMG]

    Antonov looks to US for An-70 resurrection

    Ukraine’s Antonov has announced that it has discussed potentially developing a new version of the An-70 aircraft – to be designated the An-77 – with the United States.

    In an announcement on 3 July, the company said it had been in discussions with a delegation of the US House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure to develop collaboration between US and Ukrainian firms on the aircraft.

    As part of the discussions, collaboration between Ukraine’s State Aviation Administration and the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) covering aviation safety standards is also to be undertaken.

    UkrOboronProm Director General Roman Romanov told Jane’s at the recent 2017 Paris Air Show that the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence had recently announced the intention to purchase the An-70, as the country’s requirements for tactical transport grows.

    The company claims it has also been receiving requests for information on the aircraft from potential export customers.

    Romanov went on to add that the company had also begun to apply the learning experiences from the Antonov An-132D programme, undertaken with support from Saudi Arabia’s Taqnia Aeronautics and the King Abdulaziz Centre for Science & Technology. In particular, the replacement of Russian systems and components with Western ones has improved the platform’s marketability, as it incorporates higher and more widely established standards and capabilities.

    http://www.janes.com/article/72015/antonov-looks-to-us-for-an-70-resurrection

    @Sancho @Abingdonboy @Gessler @PARIKRAMA @randomradio @vstol jockey
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Politics will be the main issue, Russia is in conflict with them and won't be happy if we fund them. But yea, we missed the Ukraine chances long ago, for their carrier in the first place and we certainly need an aircraft in the AN70 / A400 class, especially with MTA cancelled. We need more vehicle transportability if we want to fight a 2 front war and the C130J and below are too small for that. And as I pointed out some times, IAF is not a long range high payload air force. They operate mainly in and around India, which makes a larger fleet of this class of aircrafts more suitable, than too many heavy class aircrafts.
     
  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Sure, it's not as pressing as the fighter requirements but in about 10 years this is going to be a real issue and steps need to be taken in the next 5 years to mitigate against this or will the Indian mil sleepwalk into yet ANOTHER disaster?

    Perhaps for the IL-76 but it is still only has about half the payload of the C-17 and about half the speed of the C-17.

    India has seen this show before aka MTA, FGFA etc, it will end in the predictable disaster.

    Hasn't India learnt anything from this logic :p

    You pay peanuts and you will get monkeys! The A400M and C-17 are state of the art machines that will perform flawlessly near enough 100% of the time, does anyone have confidence in Antonov to offer the same level of after sales support?
     
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  4. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yeah, We are already on edge with fighters so priorities.

    What is up with your obsession with C17?. Its out of the equation. Even if we are offered some ten C17s, it will cost $4-5 billions which we don't have to spare. According to CAG we still don't have infrastructure to operate it in its full capacity across the country. Not single airbase have capable runways to operate it at max 76ton.

    How is Il-76 half of C17? Il-76-90 max payload is 60ton when C17 76ton. Our Il-76s get 20 years more with the scheduled upgrade.

    We haven't signed both of these deals are you are evaluating outcomes already? Also, Ukraine is the one desperate here, India can offer 40-50 number assurance to make the program viable. Only handful of countries can offer them that.

    How the hell is A400M flawless ? Even the partners are trying to get rid of it. For C17 we got zero industrial benefits after spending $4 billions.

    An-70 with western avionics and improved engines will be as good as any of these for us. We can secure production/export licence and IPs.

    A400M offers 37tons while An-70 have max payload of 48ton with half of the cost !. How is that even a comparison ? @PARIKRAMA @Gessler

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/22/airbus-flies-yet-trouble-a400m-military-plane/

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...loding-as-half-a400m-engines-have-cracks.html
     
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  5. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    It's combination of high payload, rough field capability and incredibly high availability rates are peerless in the IAF. The IAF itself had targeted a minimum of 16-22 of them but because of production ceasing were limited to just 10 so clearly a void exists. Since inducted, every time the IAF has required a swift response or out of area mission the C-17 has been the asset it has sent (to Fiji, Maldives, Yemen, Nepal, Alaska, UK etc etc).

    Sure there is a price to pay for this but that's obvious- you get what you pay for.

    Firstly, CAG reports are always commentating on the situation as far back as 18 months-2 years ago, not the current reality. Secondly, upgrading physical infrastructure is a complex process, one can't just take out all the bases at one time; it has to be done in a staggered way (like how MAAFI took 5-7 years) so as to minimise the effects across the entire nation- this is particuarly true for airports that cater to civlian traffic or are alternates for civlian airports (which is exactly what Hindon is) considering many of the IAF's airbases are dual use this compounds the issue.

    I meant the An-70 has about half the payload of the C-17.

    MTA was a mess from start to finish and we can make an educated guess as to how these matters will evolve and predict the outcome.

    Ukraine is in no position to offer the kind of development partnership you seek, they couldn't even complete the An-32 upgrade for the IAF.

    I meant to say flawless in operations; high up times, on-board diagnostics, world class servicability etc etc. It is always the operational side that India has problems with- the Su-30MKI, MiG-29/K, IL-76 etc etc should all be stark warnings. Paper specs are useless if one isn't able to utilise them when needed, whenever one needs to.
     
  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Well have to completely agree with @Abingdonboy (pal need some explanation here on why you choose that username and what it means) here as the C17 is a far for capable in space where Tonnage capacity is not just the only criteria.

    This capability can be explained by this post by @lordofgondor on pdf (credit to him)

    Never really noticed the weird unloading procedures for the Il76 family.
    Comparison for a Puma unloading:
    Il76
    [​IMG]
    C17
    [​IMG]

    IL76


    C17


    As you can see this ease of operation for the C17 + we all have seen C17 used to evacuate our citizens from Yemen and other places. Unless the Loading design is improved on the IL76 to match this, truly wished that we had gone in for more C17
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The problem is the limited width of the IL cargo hold, but then again, for most missions in IAF, neither close to the full payload of the C17 will be achieved, nor does the strategic range is a key.
    What India needs, are aircrafts with a large cargo hold and medium to heavy payloads, that's where the A400, AN70 or the Japanese C2 fit perfectly in numbers.

    C17
    A400 / AN70 / C2
    C130J
    C295W

    Would be the ideal mix for IAF
     
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  8. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    A400 still has operational issues and delayed delivery
    An70 - only one frame is inducted? - possible political issues with Russian if India goes with this program?
    C2 - is logically - how is it?
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Well the A400 is a new aircraft, which has to get over it's initial teething problems, but it's capabilities are well regarded and it already is showing multi role capabilities.
    The AN70 is not fully developed, which makes specs ore reliable operational capability predictions difficult. And as you and others stated, political and after sale issues are likely.
    The C2 is a nice aircraft, but also in it's early stages and the biggest issue is the inexperience of Japan in defence export, which makes ToT or licence productions difficult, as we can see in the US2 case, or the SSKs for the Australian tender.
     
  10. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There is an excellent article of the capabilities of the A400 in combat aircraft, will locate that and post it here!
     
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  11. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Now, IAF plans to land its cargo planes on Agra-Lucknow Expressway
    Tuesday, July 25, 2017 By: HT Source Link: CLICK HERE
    [​IMG]

    After two successful touchdowns by its fighter jets on expressways in Uttar Pradesh last year, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will attempt to land its transport planes on the Agra-Lucknow Expressway in October.

    A state government spokesperson said the IAF was preparing to land its cargo planes on the road-runway on the expressway.

    The Agra-Lucknow Expressway has India’s first road runway.


    The IAF landed seven of its Sukhoi and Mirage 2000 planes on the Unnao section of the expressway in November last year. Before that, the IAF had landed its Mirage 2000s on the Yamuna Expressway near Agra and on the airstrip at Saifai village in Etawah district in May last year.

    The 3.3-km stretch of the 302-km expressway can be used to land fighter jets and transport planes in emergencies when military airfields are unavailable.

    Till now, IAF has not landed its planes on roads in any other state.

    The Agra-Lucknow Expressway was built at a cost of Rs 13,200-crore in 22 months by the Akhilesh Yadav government. The six-lane expressway is India’s longest one and can be expanded to eight lanes.
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/N...argo-planes-on-Agra-Lucknow-Expressway-263384
     
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  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    Two new C-130Js arrive at Panagarh

    The C-130Js have arrived at Air Force Station Arjan Singh which is awaiting the arrival of four more under a month. The six medium-lift capability C-130J will complete the first squadron of six such aircraft in eastern the sector.

    C-130J will be used by the Special Forces and a division of the Mountain Strike Corps, recently raised by the Indian Army. The Corps has two divisions, instead of the usual three, with a strength of about 80,000 personnel. One of the divisions will be stationed at the Panagarh station once it is fully raised.

    The first squadron of C-130J was stationed at the Hindon airbase in Ghaziabad.
     
  13. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Screenshot (25).png Screenshot (26).png Screenshot (27).png Screenshot (28).png
    Reading CAG report is so depressing :cray:
     
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  14. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Two more C-130J-30 Super Hercules aircraft [KC-3809 & KC-3811] spotted at Lisbon on its way to India.
    The first two C-130Js [KC-3807 & KC-3808] from the second batch arrived at Air Force Station Arjan Singh in the end of July.
    The new aircraft are part of the second order of the 7 C-130J-30s for the second squadron of the type.
    Image credits: Hugo Guerra
     
  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    The pace of delivery is truly awe-inspiring- orders were placed in 2016 IIRC and now 4 of 7 will be in service within a span of 4 weeks of each other!

    With issues with the An-32 fleet, killing off of the MTA, C-295s being totally MIA and stunting of the C-17 fleet India should keep placing batch orders for these beasts on a near annual basis to ensure they keep flowing in with few breaks.


    A fleet of at least 30 (18 of which need not be configured for Spec Ops) would be ideal for the IAF in addition to all of their other plans (that never really seem to move beyond the planning stage).
     

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