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Trump administration clears game changer deal for sale of 22 Guardian drones to India

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by lca-fan, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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  2. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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  3. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Correct. We are bounded by budget.

    And Guardian can be a very good solution for Indian Navy Broad Area Survillance needs if we approach this deal nicely , while ensuring no gaps are left on our side which the OEM can later use to milk us.

    Guardian is 90% capable sensor wise, 75-80% endurance wise, at 40% of the procurement cost of Triton.

    It uses the Radar of the same family of P8 aircrafts. Its Electrooptic sensors are exactly same as that of the Triton.

    The 2016 Update to gain European certification has seen its safety increased.

    All in all , it would be a excellent support for our P8I fleet.And it would help Indian Navy to focus P8I more and more on ASW missions.
     
  4. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Because what if war breaks out tomorrow and you're caught with your pants down? It's easy to say put everything into research, but it's a balancing act between preparedness and future ambitions.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We are doing R&D on our own stuff also.
     
  6. ASHOKSINH GOHIL

    ASHOKSINH GOHIL FULL MEMBER

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    but spending very low compared to we purchase...above figures itself said

    even this deal take place, plane or drone does not deliver next day....it takes around 2-3 or more years to deliver.
    finally it all depends on where you looking to see your country in next 5-10 years i.e you want to buy again new plane from this nation and become self-dependent. like China developed their own weapons etc and less dependent on other countries.

    as you said " what if war breaks out tomorrow"...i said why to wait to come emergency and purchase plane...why we don't develop our own planes and drone before such emergency or necessity arise
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    R&D spending is lower than procurement.

    F-35's R&D spending is 60-70B, procurement spending is nearly 400B.
     
    ASHOKSINH GOHIL likes this.
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Because Project Rustom is so far .. er...far from being deployable. You can not wait for technology to develop when the platform is required now. You can, instead, source from outside, and develop your own in the meanwhile.

    There is a difference in developing a capability, having a capability and deploying a capability now/after a few months/after a few weeks/after a few years.

    Use the above yardstick to differentiate ....
     
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  9. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What if this deal is to pay back for getting India into MTCR?
     
  10. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    These drones will reduce the work load on our P 8 I and Helicopters

    It is a good addition to Navy's surveilance capabilities given the increasing presence of Chinese navy close to Indian shores
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Actually they have a good track record, which TATA is showing, but people just use "offsets" as the new tag line, just as "ToT" in the past, as if offsets are something new and special.

    The simple fact that offsets can be anything that the foreign company does in India, completely unrelated from the product we are buying, shows how little importance it has.

    We are building fins of the AASM kit now in India, which is part of Rafales offset pack and also includes ToT. But neither does it have any importance for IAF (since they doesn't seem to order the weapon), nor does it offer our industry a technological improvement.
    Same goes for maintenance that Thales diverts to DRAL, which also is part of the offset package.

    The only given advantage is, that it gets more foreign players to invest into the Indian industry in whatever form, but that was the idea behind it, when offsets were implemented more than a decade ago.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Euro Hawk program was meant to procure and customize Global Hawks with European systems, that increased the costs by far, which ended in the latter cancellation.
    India however will only get the ability to use Israeli data links, to make it compatible to INs systems, but that's it.
    And don't expect these drones to be used in all the IOR, since they certainly won't be allowed to be deployed in areas where US have their own interests. I wonder how close to Pakistani shores they will be allowed to operate?
     
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  13. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Israeli data link ? can you expand on that?
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    We have to use cus tomorrow data links, com or IFF equipment, because western Nato standard counterparts are not compatible to our mixed Russian / western systems. That's why P8I, or C17 and C130 got customized avionics, just as the Apaches and Chinooks will.
    And most of these custom stuff as we know are Israeli origin, be it off the shelf or jointly developed.
    US UAVs have to be linked with Indian systems as well, but the SATCOM system surely will remain US origin and under their control.
     
  15. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    China concerned by US-India surveillance drones deal

    In China, many experts see the Modi government crafting a much closer relationship with the US and deepening defence ties, but at the same time do not expect India to become an ally.
    Ananth Krishnan | Posted by Isha Gupta Beijing, June 26, 2017 | UPDATED 12:57 IST

    [​IMG]

    Narendra Modi and US President Donald Trump in Washington on Monday, with particular attention on the deal for surveillance drones that would boost India's capabilities in the Indian Ocean, Chinese experts have said.


    The agreement for around 22 unarmed surveillance drones is among the agreements on the agenda, while a deal for co-producing F-16 fighter aircraft was also finalised before the visit between Lockheed Martin and Tata.

    Han Hua, a leading Chinese strategist who is Director of the Center for Arms Control and Professor at the School of International Studies at Peking University, told India Today: "Some people in China are a little concerned. Still, it is not the most advanced technology being shared for example when you look at the F-16s. But that is only one issue of defence cooperation. There is also the transfer of surveillance drones in the Indian Ocean. It will increase India's capability to have a view over the entire Indian Ocean. That is more symbolic than the F-16 joint production."

    CHINA CLOSELY WATCHING OUTCOMES

    China is closely following the outcomes of the visit. As in Delhi, there was some concern in Beijing following Trump's election considering his unpredictability, although Chinese President Xi Jinping had a surprisingly cordial visit to the US, where he was welcomed at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.

    Han Hua said, "I think the US-India relationship has an impact on the China-US relations. After the Bush administration opened the door to India, people in Washington have been talking about India's role in checking China's rise. Especially after the nuclear deal in 2005, the relationship between Washington and New Delhi has emerged as a concern among Chinese strategists. Especially the nuclear deal, as it's not just a nuclear deal. It is a more symbolic way to show the nature of the strategic partnership between US and India. In that sense, China is concerned."

    AT THE SAME TIME, BEIJING NOT OVERLY CONCERNED

    At the same time, one reason Beijing is not overly concerned is that in its view, ahead of India on the agenda for Trump is dealing with North Korea. "The Trump administration cannot solve the North Korea problem by itself. Maybe China provide a kind of solution. As many Americans think, China has a high stake in that issue," said Han.

    Han, who is also a leading expert on nuclear issues, also said she wasn't sure if Trump would do the heavy-lifting required to push India's membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group. "We haven't witnessed any specific policy change on NSG after the Trump administration in terms of India's membership. Some people have said the administration supports the membership but a strong statement hasn't been made yet in that issue," she said.

    In China, many experts see the Modi government crafting a much closer relationship with the US and deepening defence ties, but at the same time do not expect India to become an ally as in the case of Japan or even Philippines.

    "I think my conviction is India in terms of foreign policy independence that is very well entrenched in the country no matter who is the ruling party." said Han. "Modi, people tend to think is more nationalist or takes a very realistic view on the world rather than the middle-line policies taken by Congress. In my sense, India is still a country with its own pride and glory so I don't think India will go very far from the current foreign policy decision-making. Some people say Modi has already been quite close to the US in strategic terms but for me that trend will go a little bit further but not far beyond the general non-alignment policy.
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...lance-drones-defence-agreements/1/987508.html
     
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