Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Turkey's TFX Fifth Gen Fighter Program

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by Agent_47, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,659
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    Country Flag:
    France
    i am sorry it wont help anyone as they are in advanced stage of development of their own protype .We wont have anything


    i dont see closely rather i see future , each post of mine has some relevance if not everything .
    US & britain has JSF for it's navy . who knows chinese may deploy some stealth jet for it's own navy in fture .
    so IN should not be behind to keep an edge in indian ocean ,but rather they are running after F18 ,rafales & Mig29



    CHEERS
     
  2. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,225
    Likes Received:
    1,267
    Country Flag:
    India
    Who is asking Japan, for another Stealth fighter Plane. Countries don't makes fighter planes, its different OEMs which contributes to build a complete system.
    We need the help of the Japanese firms in the shape of JV for subcomponents such as Composites, Critical Sensors, Metallurgicy, Optronics, IRST, Avionics, Actualtors, Smart weapons, VUHF radios, High speed tactical data links, LPI Radar, Sensor fussion, Turbofan powerplant. It is not buying any components from them, rather asking them to invest in the India for R&D and development with the prosper of the 200 projected AMCA for IAF and IN, and for the exports to the friendly nations.

    BTW Japanese prototype would remain as the tech. demonstrator, unless their is huge threat from the China, since Japanese already goes for F-35.

    You don't look in the broader perceptive, that's why you fail, to see.

    1. Threats which the PRC is facing in the shape of the Japan, Taiwan, S Korea, Austalia, Indonesia, Vietnaam, Singapore, Philipence, backed by the USAN Aircraft Carrier fleet. Thus J20 was needed for the defencive doctorine of the China to create Area excess, Area Denial. That means though China was able to procure/licence build/reverse engineered long range SAMs, and field powerfull UHF survellance Radar, and various Air defence systems, the real threat comes in the shape of F35, which itself is the threat to the SAM systems and Air defence systems. So to limit the USAN carrier, J20 will serve its Aerial Air defense platform against the Tankers, AEW & EC with superior fire power, and endurace.

    2. Building a stealth Airframe is quite easy, even @vstol jockey is able to do that, but difficult when you needs the avionics, smartweapon, sensor fussion, communication and sensor capability of the real 5th gen capable fighter plane for which China have the limited source in the legal term, thats why Su-35.
    J20 is not a 5th Gen fighter plane by any stretch of imagination.

    3. Leave aside Stealth Carrier based fighter plane for China, China will have to first field its J-15 which is facing critical problems, related to the power plant, because just like India, China lacks the rare earth metallurgical know how, and is still several years behind to field the reliable powerplant. And this tech. is not available with the former USSR nations, other than Russia from where she could buy its blue prints, tools, dies and test data like it did with the Cruise missile Korsun, SU 27/33 (J-12, J16, J-15). Nor did the Chinese have experience of the Carrier operation.

    4. Most of the information about the Chinse superiority of weapons are due to the Propaganda articles, news whose author is the serving officer of PLA/PLAAF/PLAN as directed by PRC or the authors, and media who need to spread sensations amoung the western news audience. Those who buys those theories tend to make such mistakes, because they were again looking too closely, because the bigger perceptive says, it has two reasons, first PRC intenton to terrorized its neighbours and second the western media to sell their news. Infact China knew, that this fluke works only on the ordinary audiance, and not on the US intelligence.

    5. Last but not the least, their is no answer of Rafale with the China, and who don't want to fall into the trap of J-10 superior to Rafale except Pakistani , should rest assured that Rafale is much superior to it, and clear the doubts there is no stealth, in the world rather its LO, and that too in some range of frequency, and their is lot of difference between the Stealth platform and the 5th Generation warfare capable fighter plane and the latter is the ones that matters.
     
    Angel Eyes likes this.
  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,950
    Likes Received:
    5,847
    Country Flag:
    India
    TAI Summary !

    - Design studies for TF-X 5th generation fighter project is accelerated. Government has released 1,3 billion $ for design engineering of fighter.
    - HürJet advanced trainer and light attack twin engine fighter jet design took shape and revealed.
    - 8 ton class attack helicopter concept design started (No Italian contribution this time)
    - 10 ton class utility helicopter concept design started.
    - 6 ton utility helicopter (T-625) are now being manufactured and it will make its first flight in the coming months.
    - New double-engine Anka will carry 700 kg payload.
    - First Anka-B with SarPer radar delivered to Army. Second one will be delivered in December 2017.
    - Turksat-6A (~4ton) communication satellite (TAI-Aselsan-Tübitak Uzay) under development.
    - 1 ton GEO military communication satellite (TAI) is developed.
    - Gökturk-3 SAR satellite (TAI-Aselsan) development is proceeding.

    From other forum user @cabatli_53

    @Sancho @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Gessler
     
    randomradio, Gessler and Sancho like this.
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Their industrial capabilities are growing fast, but largely because they used the access to US and European partners in a smart way. I doubt they already design and development major equipment like fighters and helicopters on their own yet.
    Either way, as predicted some years ago, they turned out to be a major headache for Europe (politically) and now is increasingly getting an issue for the US and Israel too. Will be interesting to see at what point Europe or the US will cut sale and transfer of arms and technology to them.
    For India they are getting a problem too, because they are the only muslim country with such an industrial background, that could be open to Gulf cash as well as (military) know how and experience from Pakistan.
    If the west loses it's grip on Turkey, a Turkish, Arabian and Pakistani stealth fighter is more than realistic. And Trump thinks Iran is the problem. :tsk:
     
    Gessler and Agent_47 like this.
  5. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    368
    Country Flag:
    Turkey
    Why would it be a problem?
    Btw,you can take the ''Arabian'' out of it.
     
  6. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    290
    Country Flag:
    India
    Because a fundamental distrust of all things Islamic.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    Because your country had made the wrong turn in recent years, from a stable and growing democracy, that actually could had developed to a leading nation in the region, to an unstabalizing factor. The access Turkey has to western techs, then increases the risks for future conflicts, or from our perspective, to get into the wrong hands.
    Well let's see, at the pace Turkey's alliances change, you can't really tell whom you are supporting currently.
     
  8. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    368
    Country Flag:
    Turkey
    Forget this government,what ever it tries,Turkiye will never be a Islamist state,we wont allow it.
    You have seen what the people did at the coup attempt,the same will happen if they try anything stupid,there is a new political party which has a chance against Erdogans AKP,it takes time but all will be normal again.
    After what our Western ''allies'' did(openly supporting our enemies,the PKK and its Syrian branch the YPG),its normal for people to vote for a populist,things are going bad,the Lira lost against the EURO and US$,the economy is in a worse situation,unemployment is at 13%(never before),the 3 million refugees,terrorism etc.
    The people woke up,this government will lose the next elections and things will turn back to what it was,not west not east but in the middle.
     
    Angel Eyes likes this.
  9. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    368
    Country Flag:
    Turkey
    Where does it say that my country is Islamic?
    My country unlike yours is a real Secular Republic where there is on law for every citizen of the country.
    Unlike your country,we dont have Islamic laws so,which country is Islamic?
    Im sure there is a distrust to your own country to,right?
     
  10. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    290
    Country Flag:
    India
    Your country is overwhelmingly Muslim .Whether it goes back to the medievalism prevalent in wide swathes of the Islamic world or not , remains to be seen .Though , I personally don't think you would nor do a good amount of people in the forum or the rest of the world think it so , I don't think anyone can deny your present government actively seeks to undermine your secular Constitution in multiple ways using Islam to appeal to your countrymen .How much has he succeeded is a matter of opinion .

    As far as India goes , the problem lies in traditionally close ties between Turkey & Pakistan accentuated upon by your present government .This doesn't exactly endear you to us and I'm sure it's vice versa .

    As regards the laws of my country , we are a multi lingual , multi ethnic , multi religious society with personal religious laws applicable to the religious minorities namely Christians and Muslims - (which the founding fathers who constituted the Constituent Assembly tasked with drafting our Constitution did considering the pleas of the minorities namely the Muslims at the behest of our first PM Pt Nehru who didn't want to add to the feeling of "insecurity " that his fellow Muslims experienced after a particularly bloody partition which saw virtually all the religious minorities exterminated or chased out from the Western part of the newly formed Pakistan - touted by its founding fathers as a jewel of the Ummah & the new Medina ) and a few ethnic minorities in the North East of our nation enshrined in our Constitution which in its Preamble states India is a Sovereign Secular Socialist Democratic Republic .

    There is an ongoing debate since Independence on the need for a Uniform Civil Code which has seen steadfast opposition mostly from the Muslims and the various political parties which see the Muslims as their political constituency .

    You need to be a bit detached while posting and not get emotionally swayed .After all neither are you of South Asian descent nor is this PDF.

    P.S - Your country is a recent adherent to democracy given that since the Monarchy / Caliphate was abolished , you have seen more of military rule than civilian .

    Which brings us to the Republic part easily explained by all such countries which were ex monarchies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    3,409
    I don't fear that Turkey gets an Islamist country (even if the current nationalistic movement is rather backward), but you freely chose to be in an unofficial dictatorship and the polices of Erdogan are destabilising your country and the neighboring countries. So one has to be cautions about arming such a country or region.

    I wish you luck, because the situation now where media and any kind of differing voices will be suppressed, is surely not safe for opposition.

    Because Erogan secretly supported IS and made money out of it, besides that your country was on a good way with the Kurds, till Erdogan went against the HDP and for re-elections, but that's another issue.
     
    _Anonymous_ likes this.
  12. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    368
    Country Flag:
    Turkey
    We also have minorities,they have the same law to abide to,writing in a constitution that the country is a secular republic doesnt make it a secular republic,so dont come with such a statement,in your country almost every minority has different laws,even Sharia Law in Muslim states which doesnt make India secular,only in the name.
    We never had and have any problems with India,it is you(Indians)making it a problem,being close to Pakistan doesnt mean we are enemies of India,maybe its because you never had real allies or its the Indian mindset,i dont know what it is.
    Since you are democratic,vote for it and get rid of Sharia Law for Muslims?
    This way it only creates radicals and problems between the religions.
    The military rule or the coups were done to protect secularism,Muslim parties winning the elections wanted to turn the country into a Islamic Republic so the military in my country Always had a controlling role,that has changed now with this government.
     
    Angel Eyes likes this.
  13. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    368
    Country Flag:
    Turkey
    Yes they chose him but i explained why(populism),his days are almost over.
    The real opposition is not worried,the people have seen who this guy is and will vote him off at the next elections.
    Yes but it was not only Erdogan,maybe you wont believe this but ISIS was created by the US,KSA,UAE,Qatar,Jordan,UK,France and my country(Erdogan) to counter the Iranian influence in the region.
    There is a separate US plan for the ME,the establishment of Kurdistan to control the region,(Iran cannot become a neighbour of Israel) Turkiye(getting to independent,to powerfull) Iraq(under Iranian influence) and Syria(again Iranian influence).
    The ME is a real mess and hard to control,lets see what the future brings.
    That is a misconception,Turks and Kurds in my country have the same rights as citizens,no discrimination,no second class citizens,many inter marriages(at least a million),i have Kurdish family and friends neighbours,almost every Turk has,there was no problem between Turks and Kurds until Erdogan came.
    In 2001 the PKK terrorist organisation was almost finished(0nly a couple of Thousand fighters left),many were surrendering to the Armed Forces or the police,then came this idiot Erdogan and his party,he won the elections with most of the Kurdish votes,most Kurds are sunni so he used the ''Muslim brothers'' card,the socialist party and the nationalist party lost many votes because their leaders didnt have the charisma Erdogan has.
    He promised to make peace with the PKK(not many of them left,they were finished),so he made peace with them,the PKK came up with its own party the HDP(dont forget,its the PKK),the HDP MPs started stashing all kinds of weapons in the east and the big cities for years(until 2012) cause they knew they their time will come.
    The police and military were not allowed to stop or check their convoys(trucks full of weapons),can you imagine how this is possible?
    In 2013 Erdogan decided that the HDP was the party of the PKK(as if he didnt know this already) and sent many of the MPs to jail,many of them are still in jail.
    Then many attacks,bombs,killings from the PKK happened,they were everywhere,in the big cities,in the east where they controlled whole cities/villages and rural areas.
    Erdogan declared war on the PKK and destroyed a couple of cities in the east,killed and arrested many PKK militants and supporters(the jails are full of them).
    What im trying to say is that Turks and Kurds in my country were never and will never be enemies of each other,its the PKK terrorists that are our enemies.
    Btw,the YPG and SDF in Syria are just PKK,they dont care for others but PKK Kurds,they are racist pigs killing Arabs,Assyrians and Turkmen.
     
    Sancho likes this.
  14. Darshan gohel

    Darshan gohel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    9
    Country Flag:
    India
    we dont have sharia law. every muslims have right to follow their faith in india.
     

Share This Page