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US NAVY attacks Syrian Airbase with Tomahawks

Discussion in 'Greater Asia & Middle East' started by Ankit Kumar 001, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    can one battalion do this? how many launchers were visible? may S400 were removed just before the strikes?maybe syrian airforce personal were also removed ie fighters and pilots? also note that airfields were not destroyed rather it was the armory that was destroyed....
     
  2. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    No reliable information to that effect. I expect the USA would have loved data on the S400 if Russia had used it.
     
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  3. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    One battalion usually is 8 launchers, every with four missiles -32 missiles, but there can be different options.

    Yes, sure.
     
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  4. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    That is one of reasons not to use it without seriouse need.
     
  5. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    BTW, using an airspace of Lebanon without it's permission, especially for attack on another state also is a violation of international law and a crime.
     
  6. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    This whole thing can be analyzed in one factor, Growler can be overwhelmed by the swarm of cruise missiles if needed. Say even if Growler can take down 36 targets still it will be a sitting duck. So a 50m$ ordinance is enough to take down a Half a Billion $ defense systems... Kewl.
     
  7. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    After U.S. Strikes Syrian Air Base, Russians Ask: 'Where Were our Vaunted Air Defense Systems?'
    (Source: Radio Free Europe; issued April 07, 2017)
    [​IMG]
    Russians are wondering why the much-touted S-400 air-defense systems deployed in Syria didn’t shoot down the 59 cruise missiles launched by the US. Were they turned off, or did they fail to detect terrain-hugging missiles? (Russian MoD photo)

    MOSCOW --- In confirming the deployment of its S-300 and state-of-the art S-400 missile-defense systems in Syria, the Kremlin boasted six months ago that it had secured the country's air bases from American cruise missiles.

    But after a barrage of U.S. Tomahawk cruise missiles hit the Syrian government air base at Shayrat on April 7, where some Russian military personnel were stationed, consternated Russians took to social networks asking: "Where the hell were the vaunted S-400s?"

    “Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why our S-400s…. didn’t shoot down the American rockets?” asked one Twitter user.

    The Kremlin first deployed the "Triumph" S-400 system in Syria in 2015 after Turkey in November that year shot down a Russian warplane Ankara said had strayed into Turkish airspace. The system uses a package of four different types of missiles to account for various incoming weapons and aircraft: one has a long range of 400 kilometers, and another a range of only 40 kilometers, providing overlapping blanket coverage. The system is capable of downing aircraft, drones, and cruise missiles including Tomahawks, the RIA state news agency reported at the time.

    Russian and Western military analysts, however, say that the system was positioned too far away from the Shayrat air base to be effective against the April 7 strike, which used cruise missiles that skim the earth at about five meters off the ground, fly at subsonic speed, and follow their own flight paths.

    "All this talk that we have secured the whole of Syrian airspace is artistic whistling," said Pavel Felgengauer, a Moscow-based military analyst, and suggested this boasting was intended to boost the sale of arms showcased in Syria.

    "They certainly can't [intercept cruise missiles] at that distance from their location. At the very most, they can defend the nearest approach of the base where they are located," he said.

    The S-400 air-defense systems are located at Russia's air base at Latakia and its naval base at Tartus. The strike, which hit the Shayrat air base near Homs more than 75 kilometers away from the city of Tartus and more than 120 kilometers from Latakia, meant the American cruise missiles were safely out of the Russian air-defense system's effective range for cruise missiles, he said. "You can more or less defend a perimeter of about 40 kilometers."

    Justin Bronk, a defense analyst at the London-based think tank Royal United Services Institute, agreed, saying that despite the sophistication of the S-400’s radar -- which covers up to 400 kilometers at higher altitudes -- the system would encounter problemswith targets at low altitudes farther away. "Any rough terrain between the radar and the flight path of the cruise missiles will prevent that system, in this case at Latakia and Tartus, engaging," said Bronk.

    "Also, while the S-400 is advertised as having an anti-cruise missile capability, it is more geared toward ballistic missiles coming in from very high angles, very quickly, and other tactical aircraft," he said. "It's more geared toward those kinds of targets than subsonic, land-skimming missiles."

    Another observer, however, left open the possibility that the system very well could have worked, but that Moscow opted not to activate it.

    Moscow-based military analyst Aleksandr Golts noted that U.S. officials notified Russian forces of the strike ahead of time in order to minimize losses to Russian and Syrian personnel -- in compliance with an airspace safety memorandum between Russia and the U.S.-led coalition in Syria, which is conducting separate air campaigns in the country.

    "We don't know whether the Russian military was not able [to intercept it] or if it did not want to," Golts said. "As far as we can see, the memorandum on preventing incidents was operating. The Americans complied with it by informing the Russians two hours before the attack. In such a situation, again, we don't know if Russia wanted to or didn't want to use their air-defense system."

    'Not Idiots'

    Aytech Bizhev, the former deputy commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, told Interfax that the "flight path was set to bypass our missile-defense system so that they would not enter our strike range. The Americans are also not idiots."

    He told the Russian news agency that the Tomahawks would have been much less effective had they entered the range of Russian air defense. "We can't rule out that a part of the rockets would be able to get through with such a huge mass strike, but we have not only S-400s there, but also Pantsirs that are very effective against these kinds of cruise missiles at low altitudes. It would have been an entirely different picture."

    Russia’s Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on April 7 that Russia would beef up Syria’s air defenses "very soon in order to defend the most vulnerable objects of Syrian infrastructure," Interfax reported.

    Nonetheless, the perceived inefficacy of the S-400s prompted an outburst of snarky commentary on Russian language social networks, with one Twitter user writing: "Listen, I just want to check -- is Moscow also secured by S-300 and S-400s?"

    Source
     
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  8. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    First of all, everything can be "overwhelmed" with enough amount of cruise missiles. But for self-defense complex have "Panzir" and "Tunguska", and yes, it need not for self-defense, but for protection valuable objects.
    That is on of a reasons why I doubt, that it was actually used. But potential buyers, IMHO, can ask Rosoboronexport about real information. Also, our allies have option to send in Syria their own "volonteers groups", including AAD and get all "first-hand information".
     
  9. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Don't listen such dirty things.

    May be, there are some Russians who wondering (Russia is a big country, but not one from my comrades.
     
  10. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    The source has said as such.

    Well US has created a whiff of doubt and Media is escalating it. That is all actually needed to potential future customers...

    Only if anyone can post the first hand information...
     
  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Pentagon suspects chemical weapons still at Syrian air base
    [​IMG]
    FILE: The Pentagon has said it is sure Assad unleashed a chemical attack on April 4 that killed at least 87 civilians in the rebel-held Syrian town of Khan Sheikhun. Photo: Wikimedia Commons

    massive military strike on the air base last week, in retaliation for a "barbaric" chemical attack he blamed on Assad.

    "We suspected there was a significant probability there could be other chemical weapons which would be ready to go, weaponized in those facilities, and so we didn't strike those," Thomas told reporters.

    The chemical stocks were left untouched because the Pentagon did not want to risk unintentionally sending a plume of toxic gas across parts of Syria.

    Though the United States is confident Assad is stockpiling chemical weapons, intelligence analysts are not certain what these are.

    Under a 2013 Moscow-brokered deal, Assad was supposed to have dismantled Syria's chemical weapons arsenal and ship it to Russia.

    The Pentagon has said it is sure Assad unleashed a chemical attack on April 4 that killed at least 87 civilians in the rebel-held Syrian town of Khan Sheikhun.

    "Our advice was to make sure we didn't inflict any greater damage by touching any of the chemical weapons in the area," Thomas added.

    "We were trying to degrade their capability to launch aircraft and to load them up with chemical weapons."

    The Pentagon says the strike destroyed more than 20 Syrian jets but the military has come under criticism for not targeting Shayrat's runways, amid reports regime planes were again using the base hours after the attack by 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles.

    Thomas said the runways were deliberately avoided because the United States was trying to draw a clear line that its military action was in response to the suspected chemical attack, and not signal a willingness to get more involved in Syria's brutal civil war.

    US forces gave Moscow a heads up shortly before Friday's strike, as Russian personnel and equipment were based at Shayrat under Russia's ongoing military intervention to prop up Assad.

    Source
     
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  12. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Bla-bla-bla... "Of course, we have proves, but evil Russian Hackers deleted them from our super-duper secret computers."
     
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  13. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    I guess some mature thinking would suffix to analyze... :facepalm:
     
  14. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Quite a ridiculous statement, new gen SAMs from Russia are a few generations better than old soviet era SAMs. Old gen SAMs were not good enough to counter stealthy aircraft, the new ones are. No system is perfect and can be overwhelmed but you'll pay the price as well. A S-400 full scale regiment would require the opposing force to sacrifice around 3 sqds of aircraft and associated loadouts.
     
  15. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Sure, 36 missiles can be targeted at once but with long enough distances and the missiles being super fast, a second wave of 36 can be launched within a short time. Thirdly, chances are the S-400 wan simply put on offline mode for this attack. Trump probably called his friend Putin who needs Assad to leave, he can't officially say it but the only way forward for Syria is to remove Assad and US/Russian accepted puppet to be installed in place while ISIS and others are trampled.
     

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