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War clouds over India

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by ArmChairGeneral, Sep 7, 2013.

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  1. Himanshu Pandey

    Himanshu Pandey Don't get mad, get even. STAR MEMBER

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    in my view India can do everything... and it had capability to do it even defending itself from china which make your legs shake with fear... its you and your elune-touched theories which completly lack logic and has either fear, bowing in front of china, being traitor to tibbat and laddakh and without even knowing understanding the cost and need of guns, helis and fighters claims of thousand of them.

    so please spare me your BS... I am not in your league of FEAR CHINA.

    had you heard of scorpions and bombards.. they are too cheap and in past they had killed people.. should we buy 10000 of each to defend?
     
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  2. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  3. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yea sure! Low speed bombing mission over an area occupied by people with hand held stingers.

    Because such a terrain calls for precision guided bombing which the Mirages were rigged to do, not low speed bombing with unguided bombs. If you are still not satisfied, ask the IAF your stupid questions, they will be able to answer better.
     
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  4. neil_diablos

    neil_diablos Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Revisit your own post. You were the one who stated:

    So I compared our arsenal with a "stronger party". You are full of contradictions, aren't you?

    Regarding your rant about air defence, the term "air defence" does not necessarily imply deployment of fighter squadrons. It also includes SAM batteries and and anti aircraft defences as well. As far as stationing fighter squadrons are concerned, they are deployed by sector and not cities.
     
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  5. AccessDenied

    AccessDenied Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dude's pretty much validating his own user-name.:sarcastic:
     
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  6. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I shall reply to each and every one of all of you point by point.

    I am compiling some reading material for the posters. Then we shall discuss. I shall provide material on HF-24 and comparable planes also, and why HF-24 should have been kept.

    As far as sarcastic remarks, I shall ignore for now, as it does not lead to anything useful. I can tell all of you that sarcasm WILL NOT win a war. So you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. India has seen enough wars in the past where this country was thrashed due to foolishness and inaction.
     
  7. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    As regards my sentiments, I always stand for this country.

    This is the reason I want to see action, and not empty statements about this 'good' and this 'bad' and useless brochure comparisons.

    The following is relevant reading material for China:





    China Military:

    1. PLA Ground Force Modernization Underway in All Military Regions, Preparing for a Variety of Missions (2006)


    2. US report on PLA AF (2010)


    3. Xi orders PLA to intensify combat awareness (2012)


    4. A full rundown of China’s military


    5. Chinese Defense White Paper Challenges American Leadership, Military Readiness
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2013
  8. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    To understand usefulness of HF-24, read about Douglas A-4 skyhawk, an attack plane that was kept by Singapore Airforce in inventory till 2006.

    Douglas A-4 Skyhawk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A-4 skykawk was a high-subsonic plane (top speed 1077 km/hr) optimized for attack missions.

    Now look at HF-24:

    HAL HF-24 Marut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    HF-24 had a max speed of 1112 km/hr.

    Usage of HF-24 in 1971 war was in ATTACK missions where it did very well. You can read the history of 1971 war.

    Read the following about HF-24:

    According to Wg Cdr Baks**hi, “the Marut was the only aircraft which flew supersonic without an afterburner, an aspect which “our planners never gave importance to.

    Besi****d**es, the defence esta****blishment “never thought that this was a great tactical advantage. Senior personnel did not want to fly this aircraft because the worksmanship of HAL was not up to the mark,” he notes.

    The IAF was “happy because nobody wanted an indigenous programme” even though the Marut could do 640 knots, fly low level with four tanks” (comparable to the American F-22).
     
  9. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The IAF bomber - famous English Electric Canberra was retired by IAF in 2007, a large, slow plane.

    So IAF thinks a Canberra can enter Pakistani airspace without getting hit by Stinger, but HF-24 sure cannot???

    That is BS. HF-24 was shot down as it was an indigenous program, and the political leadership wanted IMPORTS.
     
  10. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    HF-24 would have created an entire ecosystem of aviation suppliers in this country. Manufacturing a fighter is tough, as a lot of equipment needs to be made, each with its own set of difficulty.

    You will master technology ONLY if you try. A nation of 1.2 billion people has to get beyond screwdrivers.

    HAL built Mig-21, Mig-27, and Jaguar but that did not create the tech base needed. HAL is now struggling to put together a trainer. Why did that happen?
     
  11. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Anyway Rafale and HF-24 are only sideshows for the discussion topic. The topic is a possible war in late 2014 to early 2016 timeframe, and how India will defend itself.

    Rafale may be a good plane, but no order has been placed. Even if an order is placed tomorrow, it is unlikely IAF will see any Rafales in less than 2-3 years. Today's fighters are quite complex and need a good lead time between order and delivery.
     
  12. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Air defence (Surface to Air Missiles)

    *** Existing Indian SAM systems ***

    SA3 Pechora SAM - (medium range / 24km) – outdated (around 30 active out of 60 procured)
    SA8b Goa SAM – outdated (short range / 10 km)
    SA6 Gainful SAM – outdated (medium range / 24 km)
    Akash SAM – (medium range / 25 km) being procured (Max 8 systems delivered) – being deployed to major airbases.
    S300PMU (Long range / 90 km) – Rumours of 2 systems procured for protection of Delhi and Mumbai by BJP government (before 2004). No additional units purchased after that.

    *** Needed SAM systems ***

    Long range systems needed for all major population clusters:
    For ex. Ludhiana, Chandigarh, Delhi, Lucknow, Varanasi, Patna, Jamshedpur, Kolkata, Gauhati, Mumbai/Pune, Ahemedabad/Surat/Vadodara, Jamnagar, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Mysore, Chennai, Kochi etc.
    (Need - 20 systems, available 2)

    Medium range systems needed for all airbases / army bases / naval bases / nuclear power plants / other strategic areas (Need – 150 SAM systems, available 8)

    Quick reaction Short Range Systems (10 km with anti-missile capability)
    Available (50 outdated systems, Need more than 100)
    In addition strike forces of Army need more than 50 mobile area defense SAM systems (Akash) (delivered 0)
     
  13. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    No Indian city except Delhi and Mumbai has SAM coverage.

    This state of affairs is worse than countries like Egypt and Syria; and definitely worse than Pakistan.

    If enemy has good EW capability (can jam radars, and guidance signals), which is true for China (and Pakistan as its client state), all older SAMs like SA3, SA6, SA8b are useless.

    India is sitting now with no effective SAM cover over 99% of its territory, and its strike forces with no effective area cover.

    This state of affairs is the result of GOI routinely ignoring defence needs, and giving defence projects to inefficient public companies in stead of competitive private companies.
     
  14. ArmChairGeneral

    ArmChairGeneral Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    *** Indian Army's favorite T-90 tank ***


    ----------------------------
    In summer 2011, Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov announced a five-year moratorium on state orders for the T-90.

    And in November 2011, General Nikolai Makarov, the chief of general staff, publicly called the T-90 ‘out of date’, claiming that its gun had barely half the range of the comparable Israeli Merkava MK4.
    ----------------------------

    T-90 survives ONLY due to India. We are a great country. We are so rich that we love throwing our money like our Indian kings used to throw on prostitutes.

    DRDO built Tank-ex that mated T-72 mechanicals to Arjun turret. This bright idea was also killed by Indian Army.

    The project which rightly should have been given to private sector was not done by GOI.

    Instead India is importing T-90 which is over-priced and under-qualified. Why? Who benefits?

    Will T-90 win a war for India? Even with Pakistan? This question must be answered.

    Army has no effective tanks and no effective artillery. India does have guns that will work in plains. Unfortunately the border is mostly mountainous where only howitzers work which India does not have.

    And this proves the fallacy of the Indian Army. Army buys only two kinds of stuff:

    a. Bad quality but padded with high volumes of grease
    b. Indian OFB and Public sector made items which it is forced to buy but keeps on complaining about.

    Indian Army has no perspective of equipment procurement. The delays originate in offices of Army Generals where 'comparative trials' are botched, and 'GSQR parameters' are frequently changed as per the winds of opportunity. The poor MOD gets the blame far more than it deserves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  15. Devil

    Devil Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    9-10 post back to back could not you use edit button simple and make into two or 3 big post with titles you joined sept and have 300 posts already
     
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