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What would be the requirement of the IAF as per you in the current Decade?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by smestarz, Aug 23, 2011.

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  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    What you mean is a mix of the V22 with this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. legalize logic

    legalize logic FULL MEMBER

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    Enhanced electronic warfare would be my best guess.Considering that the Americans haven't held back on anything hawking their wares to India,The EA-18G Growler would be a welcome addition to the family.
     
  3. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    i would like to see something like AC -130 in IAFs inventory
     
  4. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    YES something like this, but guess AC-130 Spectre is very powerful, and we can take/develop something like this for IAF for Ground support on Tactical level (taking off from distant air strips and then giving pin point accuracy)
    But a smaller platform somewhat like V-22 concept is smaller and the powerful gun that AC-130 employs might be too powerful for it,
    In WW2, germany did employ a plane Henschel Hs 129 hich had an 75 mm gun placed under the cockpit and the magazine was in the fuselage. this was one of the most excellent anti tank planes. Henschel Hs 129 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It was slow due to underpowered engine and Luftwaffe relied more on Stukas dive bombing for pinpoint accuracy.

    So from the time of 1945 to now, the technology is much different, so can it not be possible to put a 76 mm or 100 mm naval gun in a smaller (but strengthened) airframe like that of V-22 and positioned in forward base (50-100 kms from front line) and provide the role of fire fighters (to overwhelm and blunt the enemy attacks by faster deployment of these planes to provide an overkill of firepower that the enemy retreats rather than continues its thrust)
    For example 5 of these planes concentrating over a few kms front, can easily be able to put in abt 100 X 5 shells a minute.
    These may not be high calibre guns, but the advantage is range, firing power and advantage of height and range.
    And HE shells falling at the rate of 60 - 100 round a minute per plane will blunt any attack.
    That would be like facing a high calibre gatling gun :)
     
  5. illuminati

    illuminati Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    B2 bomber... in my mind, a massive stealth bomber that strikes fear is critical given that the Indian airforce is already a major force, if one looks at the numbers. Imagine the ability to carpet bomb from a range which cannot be easily targeted. This will give the country tremendous range and power display capabilities.
     
  6. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    B-2 is a bit of over kill
    AT 2 Billion dollar a piece, its way beyond India's reach
    besides, we hardly have the technology for it,
    plus operating costs of bomber is high, stealth bomber would be colossal

    I say,
    LCA,
    AMCA,
    PAK FA/FGFA,
    Euro/Rafale,
    Su - 30 MKI

    we must field these fighters since,
    our aim is defensive than aggressive

    I'll be honest,
    i would love see such bombers in Indian Inventory,
    but being particle,
    its not possible economically and not feasible
    technologically at present for India.
     
  7. illuminati

    illuminati Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Agreed, I think the Americans are also probably going to phase it out. But requirement for India means it needs to be able to devastate enemy positions quickly and should stay beyond reach. Air power is critical, if there is something similar to the B2, I am sure that it would give credible deterrence and additional options at the same time. The US needs to ship these bombers... India might just need them to be China/region focused, maintenance costs aside, it would be a good investment should the armaments be just as effective... and they won't sell it anyway.
     
  8. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    B-2 is an overkill considering cost of the plane, we can develop an Aircraft carrier at that cost !!
    There are two points here.
    Enemy morale: Yes it will destroy enemy morale considering that they would be bombed, but with new advances in technology, these technologies might not be untouchable with the new breed of missiles. And even if 2 of these planes were destroyed what would be our morale and loss!!! And worse, our best weapon might be useless. And so the entire fleet of say 8 balance planes (16 billion dollars) would be shelved. 2 billion dollar paper weights?
    LCA is good investment and we can develop it as we need,
    Rather than purchase more international planes, we should develop planes suited to us as per our needs then only we can do more research in technology that we need.
    Also for CAS Air Ship (AC-130 type) we can employ An-70 or A-400 MRTT platforms as they are similar to C-130 and then add systems that we feel are good for the roles,
    We can use 100 mm naval gun which has a turret and that provides a faster firing and with system to reduce recoil.
    Also we can add a supporting gun for "strafing" something like either 25mm revolver cannon/chain gun or gatling type
    There are various systems available including system like Kashtan which we are already using.

    Now there is different in the platforms
    Platform A: IAF plane AC-130 type plane using An-70 or A-400 MRTT platform with strengthened frames this is tactical plane which is operated by IAF or Combined command (having personal of IAF army and Navy) for simple reason
    its tactical level plane,... IAF
    Using naval gun .. Indian Navy
    Primarily for supporting army thrusts.. Indian Army
    Primary armament: 100 - 150 mm primary gun, firing high explosive rounds
    Secondary armament: 25-40 mm secondary gun firing HE rounds.
    Tertiary armament: 12.7 mm or 20 mm gatling gun for used for strafing (for very close in operations, but can be avoided)


    Platform B: Smaller STOL or VTOL craft like V-22,
    Primary weapon : 76 mm or 100 mm naval gun with magazine (crew served)
    Secondary weapon: 40 - 25 mm revolver cannon or chain gun for operational support.
    Tertiary weapon: 12.7 mm cannon or gatling gun for strafing enemy infantry during CAS operations.
     
  9. Nick 779

    Nick 779 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    We should develop LCA for CAS and produce it in large nos. at least 300. For AD EF/RAFALE , MKI should be enough till FGFA & AMCA are inducted.
     
  10. A haseeb A

    A haseeb A Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Smestarz....Gunships like AC-130 are good only against terrorists and rebels.

    Against regular armies,they are almost useless...they are big,slow moving,fly at high altitudes (as compared to helicopter gunships) so they can be easily detected and shot down even by MANPADS...There is no chance of survival in both day and night time.
     
  11. Patrician

    Patrician Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    We desperately need a few squadrons of heavy bombers and long-range strategic bombers each.

    Need to bolster air defence especially on our eastern frontiers.

    Need to develop Anti-satellite capabilities.

    Need to heavily bolster our capabilities in cyber warfare.

    Need to deploy advanced military communications sattellites for secure war-time communication.

    Need to develop full fledged network centric force.

    Need force multipliers like AWACS in huge numbers so that our airspace, and that in our neighborhood is monitored 24x7.

    Need to significantly bolster our medium and heavy lift capabilities, the ability to airlift thousands of troops within hours.

    Need to increase the numbers as well as quality too.


    ...and last but probably most important, we need to develop our in-house production capabilities. Private players must be encouraged.

    Key technologies such as jet engines, radars etc. must be developed and mass produced in-house.
     
  12. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Thank you for your quote,
    YES you are right about the fact that gunships are good against rebels or terrorist, but imagine a battle scenario where the front lines are very close.
    Both the armies are supported by their artillery,
    But if any side has complete air superiority, it can deploy these gunships,
    If I am not mistaken, the range of MANPADS is short, since they are man portable and usually useful for hitting low flying targets like helicopters or low flying planes,
    Stinger has a range of 8 kms (please check your source if I am wrong)
    Mistral and RBS has range of 6 kms

    Now the primary gun system that I am thinking is naval gun
    For example the french gun (French 100 mm naval gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    It has a range of 17 kms which is at an angle of 40 deg.
    But if the platform is flying at a height of say 8000- 20000 ft, the range is much more because at that height the air resistance ls less and also its firing from an elevated position so it does not have to inititally go against gravity to to get to a height.
    Thus is used from elevated position the range can be at least 10% more (as per me and i am open to correction)
    So it can be fired safely outside the range of MANPADS.

    Also doctrine is important, Complete air superiority and SEAD missions should be flown to weed out any radar usage by the enemy. and then its army vs army but with advantage of this gunship.

    This is my view, and I am open to your view,

    Thank you for your post:)
     
  13. A haseeb A

    A haseeb A Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    No,no...land based guns don't work on aerial platforms the same way...

    If you look at this picture again...
    [​IMG]


    During an attack, the gunship performs a pylon turn over the target area, allowing it to bring fire on a target for longer periods then conventional attack aircraft.You will see that the AC-130 fires its 15mm howitzer at a depressed angle...the rounds fired almost go straight to the target...Now,at this angle,the range cannot be more than 6 km...

    If you are saying that the plane should be kept at horizontal,then the fire would kick the plane out of its flight path and will cause great turbulence,thereby reducing the accuracy (Aircraft experts please provide help)...

    In India's case,the above situation won't work against Pakistan or China...Both have well qualified armies and air forces...
     
  14. A haseeb A

    A haseeb A Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    An AC-130 has been shot down by a MANPAD in Gulf War

    Special Operations.Com
     
  15. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    I found another nice gun
    Otobreda 76 mm (Otobreda 76 mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    Specifications
    Weight Empty: 7.5 tonnes (17,000 lb)
    Barrel length 62 caliber: 4,724.4 mm (186.00 in)
    Shell 76×900mmR (complete round)
    12.34 kilograms (27.2 lb)
    Caliber 76.2 mm (3.00 in)
    Elevation -15°/+85°
    speed:35°/s (acceleration: 72°/s²)
    Traverse 360°
    speed: 60°/s (acceleration: 72°/s²)
    Rate of fire Compact: 85 round/min
    Super Rapid: 120 round/min
    Muzzle velocity 925 m/s (3,030 ft/s)
    Maximum range HE round fired at 45°:
    Compact: 20,000 m (22,000 yd)
    Super Rapid: 30,000 m (33,000 yd)
    Feed system Magazine capacity:
    80 ready rounds on Compact gun mount
    85 ready rounds on Super Rapid gun mount

    Worth adding on the medium weight tactical CAS Artillery plane :)
     
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