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Why I love the idea of China in Pakistan!

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Hellfire, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There is an opportunity there for India to create an absolute graveyard for the Chinese by providing money, weapons and training to those upcoming radical groups using its geographic proximity. I hope India grabs this opportunity with both hands and bogs down China in an unimaginably bloody trap, rather than playing ball and letting Beijing consolidate itself on our western flank too, essentially signing our own death warrants, before the Chinese inevitably betray us and make us pay for letting them get that strong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    About CPEC:

    Only Gwadar region is 91%. We don't really know what it's like for other regions yet.

    As for the rest of CPEC, it's split into debt and equity. The debt is taken by a consortium of Chinese and Pak companies, mostly Chinese companies. And equity is mostly investment by Chinese companies. The debt to equity ratio is 80:20 on average AFAIK.

    Pak govt is giving sovereign guarantee of 18% or more on equity invested by Chinese companies.

    The remaining 80% is going to be paid back to the Chinese banks by the companies over 50 years.
     
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  3. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The extremists who were on a rampage a few days back basically
    want a SHARE in the Pie

    And now they have tasted success ; they will go for more

    read this

    The surrender at Faizabad

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/249603-the-surrender-at-faizabad
     
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  4. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    True, but knowing the Pakistani psyche, I just don't see them accepting Chinese overlordship. They are a bunch of easily radicalized and easily rallied emotional fools with a disproportionately large ego and unjustifiably large amount of pride.

    China will be fighting against history if they intend to subjugate Pakistan in spite of looking radically different, being atheists, and being notoriously abusive in their treatment of Muslims.

    Also, connectivity works both ways, when the Taliban runs out of things to do in Afghanistan, and as groups like ISIS disappear from the Middle East and re-appear in the Af-Pak region, who is to say they won't start focusing on China and specifically, Xinjiang?

    So while CPEC is just a foreign project on their sovereign land, it's easy to see all the Pakistanis lining up for their slice of the pie, but when China's plans start to come along and their real intentions become painfully obvious, to the point that even those "moti-buddhi" Pakistanis can clearly see what China is about to do to them, I don't see them going away quietly.
     
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  5. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  6. dray

    dray 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Chinese are ruthless and aggressive businessmen, they will certainly hold everything of value in Pakistan...ports, roads, bridges, utility services, businesses, even farmlands. They will buy Pakistani leaders, both civilian and military, and ensure that policies are framed to favour them.... they will set new benchmarks of crony capitalism in Pakistan. But I don't think they will get involved in the local issues and Governance of Pakistan, they will just keep the civilian and military establishment happy and suck the blood out of common Pakistanis.

    Pakistani civilian and military leadership won't revolt unless there core interest and control are hurt by the Chinese. Remember, Pakistani leadership revolted against USA only when USA dragged them into their war on terror, thereby hurting Pakistani core interest in Afghanistan and in Kashmir by antagonizing/destroying their 'strategic assets'.

    However, I believe this honeymoon with China will come to an end sooner than their relationship with USA. It will happen when China becomes too greedy or too aggressive, which they will eventually, and people of Pakistan start threatening the future prospects of the civilian government.
    Or when Pakistani non-state actors start collaborating with the jihadis of Xinjiang for their Islamic ummah, and China goes hard on them or forces Pakistani government/military to go hard on them, thereby hurting Pakistani military establishment's core interest / strategic assets. Mullahs and Jihadis virtually rule Pakistan today, so godless China won't be tolerated for long in Pakistan, especially when there is a Xinjiang.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  7. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    1) china is a long term player, they are greedy right now, but they can play the game much better than the USA
    2) whenever the scepter of local issues come up, playing the "India is the true enemy" with some false flag is enough to divert the masses, the elite are already dual visa holders and the army would get the plum posts anyways.

    Pakistan is unfortunately taking bad to worse decisions in its hatred against India. they are like the proverbial frog in the boiling water. by the time the frog realizes that the water is going to boil it to death, the point of no return is long gone. let them go to the dogs or let them prosper, we need to be prepared for any eventuality. I am also against some popular notions here that some parts of Pakistan should be annexed by India. this should NEVER happen. there needs to be a distance between India's western borders and central asian region. there is no democracy in its true form from the borders of India until we reach Europe. so no matter how much you annex, you will always have a radical islamic time bomb in your hands.

    let the Oil economy die down in a decade or so, the pack of cards will slowly fall.
     
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  8. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    China is far more sinister and shrewd I think. they know how to handle a nuclear time bomb. they have been practicing the art with North Korea. despite all the empty promises they have made to the USA, they continue to provide under the table assistance to NK and help NK bully USA.
    I believe they are going to play the same game by using Pakistan against India. this is a Long term play and will take decades even centuries to unfold, but the Chinese art of war book is good place to understand their nature of slow and stead progress towards their goals.
    Pakistan's multi pronged groups -
    1) the political class that happen to be magnified versions of our Congress (political dynasts through and through)
    2) army generals which always happen to get the plum posts, own anything of profit in Pakistan and also make sure not even a word is said against them such that you will be labelled an anti national
    3) a group of anarchists who want nothing but sharia and believe that is answer to every problem they face - from polio to cholera to hunger or corruption.

    all of them want power and they will go to any lengths to destroy the other in combination with the lesser evil at that moment. and all of them can be bought. and from time to time, the outside players have bought either of the above players.

    the KSA has a hegemony with the religious motely, the USA has a hegemony with the political class, the amy with the chinese.

    depending on who has a better control of the three, you can see which players are active in Pakistan. the only place - god forbid- for all three to become congruent is with an Anti India rhetoric - and thats what any of the three parties use when sh*t hits the fan.

    by enabling land reforms, making sure the army is within civilian control and now waking up to the dangers of dynastic politics (instead of politics of performance) we (India) have broken the shackles of all three of the above players.
     
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  9. Levina

    Levina Colonel on stilettos ADMINISTRATOR

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    I agree.
    No matter who rules Pakistan (be it army or the civilian govt.) China will always maintain good relationship with Pak.
    They have no interest in uplifting Pak, infact to me Chinese are be the new age Colonisers.
    If i were to look at it from Indian perspective, China’s presence in Pak will add to India’s woes. This so because PLA has a presence in every country where China has made generous investments, and that is mos def not good news for India.

    Though @Hellfire is a dear friend, I like his articles and the views put forward by him, i must agree that at times it becomes a lil difficult to comprehend things in his articles.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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  11. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  12. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  13. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  14. dray

    dray 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Yes, that's a sure thing, and it will change a whole lot of things in the world 2030-35 onwards. Arabs will go back to riding camels by 2045-50, and Islam itself might die a slow death by 2070-80 for lack of economic heft and increasing discomfort of associating with it....and there will be peace and sanity in the world. Amen.
     
  15. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Hahaha .If only life were so simple .
     
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