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why not su-47 berkut??

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by he-man, Dec 30, 2013.

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  1. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Now guys russia made 4 prototypes of su-47 ,13-14 years ago but unfortunately it did not become a reality.I believe it should have been a reality.It had a smaller weapons bay compared to pakfa with a plan of 3-4 air to air missiles i think.

    But the plan could have been modified for more missiles to fit instead of going for pakfa which i don't think is stealthy enough.

    here have a look and tell me what do u ppl think??

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  2. omya

    omya Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    wonder why did russia even funded such a project US have already tried it with the x29 in 1980....
     
  3. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    the point is it had better stealth than pakfa

    and x-29 is far worse than su-47 when it comes to stealth

    [​IMG]
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Su-47's RCS was somewhere around where Rafale and Typhoon are at today. It wasn't a 5th gen aircraft, though it had high thrust engines, internal bays and supercruise.

    Sukhoi refers to the Su-47 as a 4++ gen aircraft. That's 4.5th gen.
     
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  5. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    anyone can easily see that shaping of s-47 is miles ahead of pakfa,forget about rafale and typhoon.
    it had a complete y duct and not a partial duct of rafale and no s-duct of pakfa.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They you go ask Sukhoi why Su-47 is a 4++ aircraft and PAKFA is 5th gen.
     
  7. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    because of the avionics.su-47 flew 14 years ago

    are so so naive as to not see that su-47 is more stealthy??
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Nope. The avionics Su-47 was expected to fly was also state of the art, including stuff like AESA and sensor fusion of all sensors based on IMA architecture. The end of the Soviet Union killed the program.

    Basically, Su-47 was a direct counter to European programs like EF and Rafale. It was not a stealth aircraft. Sukhoi's quotes on Su-47 place it in the -10 dBsm range, and this is similar to Rafale and Typhoon claims, just that it had internal bays for weapons.

    Sorry, but PAKFA is far, far, far, far more stealthy. I would any day believe Sukhoi over anybody else unrelated to the program.

    By the way, you can't judge RCS by looks. You need to measure RCS in a very complex facility.
     
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  9. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    it was indeed more stealthy,,it had none of the shortcomings of pakfa.
    maybe creating such a plane was costly and thus it was cancelled in favour of simpler to implement and produce pakfa.

    it had y ducts too,so no need for any radar blocker.

    plus u mention aesa??
    even till now russia has got no production aesa and we are talking about 14 years earlier!!

    n036 is still undergoing testing and is not certified yet,mig-29k(even russian) is still flying with shitty zhuk-me.
    sukhoi is now trying to save face,what else do u expect them to say??
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  10. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    You will also believe Boeing when they say F/A-18 is a 5th generation fighter?
     
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  11. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    :LMAO::dance3::nope::facepalm:
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    PAKFA has no shortcomings in comparison to Su-47. Su-47 has more shortcomings like a smaller internal bay, less cruise speed, less altitude etc.

    It has S-ducts. Su-47 has S-ducts, but PAKFA doesn't. But Sukhoi says PAKFA is more stealthy than Su-47. Why? It's because no S-ducts doesn't mean no stealth. Both X-32 and YF-23 have no S-ducts.

    This is YF-23.
    [​IMG]

    That's because funding ceased in 1988 and started again only in early 2000s when PAKFA program was sanctioned. There was over a decade or more where Russian companies did not receive funding for next gen tech. Apart from that, Soviet Union had introduced ESA technologies on fighters around 25 years before US did.

    They aren't trying to save face. Look at the stuff the Russians have developed.

    http://www.myshared.ru/slide/264263/#

    Check slide 11, the image on the right is a radar with GaN chips.

    They currently hold the record for the smallest GaN chips in the world. 13mm thick on 0.4 inch Silicon chips while European countries are still talking about 200mm chips on 4 inch chips.

    Even more advanced civilian corporations haven't yet shown such technology. Shows how much money they are putting into the PAKFA program as a whole and why they need Indian funding to continue.
     
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  13. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    u have no hope man

    u are a typical fanboy,sorry to say really.

    unfortunately this is incurable
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They made it quite clear what they meant by 5th gen for Super Hornet. And it was for Block 3 SH with EWPs and CFTs. Their main intention is for tapping the export market with this aircraft.

    [​IMG]

    They might end up with a lot more RCS reduction features than what's on Rafale.

    Overall SH B3 may end up being called 5th gen with major airframe changes and removing surface discontinuities and perform skin treatment similar to what's on F-35.

    They may not achieve all aspect stealth, but they might achieve very low frontal signatures, perhaps as low as F-35, like advertised for F-15 Silent Eagle. And of course, an IMA architecture like Rafale to boot.

    They are basically aiming for something that's planned for Rafale F4. Just an inferior 5th gen aircraft compared to true 5th gen aircraft that was designed from ground up to be stealthy. Like converting a 2nd/3rd gen Mig-21 into a 4th gen Mig-21 Bison with 0.25m2 RCS.

    Cheers.
     
  15. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    we are not discussing the rafale here.

    we are saying the pakfa is less stealthy compared to j-20,f-35 and of course f-22 and that we were better off with su-47
     
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