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why SU 35 would nt pose any serious security threat to india's RAFALE ,

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    That was for Smestarz wasnt it?

    The image of the Rafale looks like it has speedbrakes.
     
  2. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Larger aircraft can always be equipped better than smaller aircraft. Its just difficult to adapt new technology.
     
  3. ASHRAF

    ASHRAF FULL MEMBER

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    rafale use aileron on trailing edge and canards as speedbrakes ,
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    That's what I meant, it won't! 30 to 60 Su 30SMs will have part commonality to roughly 300 x Su 30 MKIs and MKMs, while a follow order of Su 35 will have only parts commonality to the early 48 x Su 35s. Logically the IRBIS E and 117S parts must be more expensive than the MKI/MKM parts. Not to mention that India and Malaysia will go for upgrades and will partially fund them, while future Su 35 upgrades would have been funded by Russia alone. So in the long term, the one that was sold the most, will be more cost-effective, while beeing slightly inferior in performance maybe.
    The Mig 35 is nothing the Russians really want, but might be a compromise to keep Mikoyan alive, since even today their main work is for India (upgrades for more than 60 x Mig 29s, 45 x Mig 29Ks on order), so if they don't get more funds, further developments of the fighter and techs are in big trouble. One reason I would prefer indigenous AESA and Kaveri K10 in the Mig 29Ks instead of N-LCAs, because that would make the more capable plattform better and more independent from Russia as well.
    Anyway, from operational cost point of view, additional Mig 35s would also be much cheaper than Su 35s.

    That's the older Su 35 that was proposed to us, but we opted for the Su 30MKI, but we customised our version with similar capabilities. The current Su 35BM don't have canards anymore, as part as the RCS reduction and because it has the more advanced TVC system.
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Of course, but the problem is that the basic design will remain the same, no matter how much you modernise the techs. Take the older F15s and the latest F15 Silent Eagle for example, the only real visual difference will be the CFTs with weapon bays, other than that the fighter has basically internal modernisations. Same goes for the Su 35, which is modernised compared to other Flankers, but the design remans to be the decades old Su 27 design.
    Rafale, EF, or Gripen instead were developed later and with a more modern design in mind, which gives certain advantage, but the main problem remains, that the Eurocanards have to carry external fuel tanks now. A Rafale or EF with CFTs would have much higher chances against the Su 35 in head on engagements, than they have today.
    On the other side modern air combat don't rely that much on the fighter radar anymore, but takes multiple sensors and sensor data sharing to account to get a much better situational awareness than in the past.
     
  6. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I have checked my eyes but I think you need to visit some mental hospital first....

    See again in your post you quoted AA's post in which he has given a link...
    See this

    This was AA's post you quoted..

    Now in that link this is the image...

    [​IMG]

    I know at once you won't get it.. See it again and again until you don't get it. OK :tup:
     
  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Dude check the link that AA posted and see the entire post, specially the lower part of that link and then comment, else Shut the fcuk up..
    The image that I had posted is from that same link for the forum to see, so read that page first and see all the relevant images and then post.
     
  8. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    well same can be said for SU 35 as they both are not stealth fighters ,but air borne Radar threats are far greater threat than SAM threat becoz

    1) planes can fly low to evade SAM radars but it is very difficult to evade from air borne radar even if they fly low

    2) Both fighters on external payload are vulnerable to SAM radars but Thanks to stand off cruise missiles they just need to stay away
    from SAM ranges

    3) Rafale has shown trememndous capabilty to show it's SEAD & DEAD skills thanks to it's SPECTRA EW suite which can cue it's precision air to ground munitions with spectra alone
     
  9. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    [​IMG]

    OH PLZ !!:suicide:
     
  10. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Correct, though flying very close to the surface can cause problems in target acquisition to air borne radar (clutter issues).

    And even without it, SAMs aren't terribly effective.
     
  11. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    R 77 ramjet version is still in testing stages compare to meteor so plz stop grumbling on that issue


    & R 27 missile is one of the most Flopped missile in history check WIKI :sarcastic:

    PLZ do us a favour

    STOP WASTING YOUR & MY TIME
     
  12. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And miss all the fun ?
     
  13. ASHRAF

    ASHRAF FULL MEMBER

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    1-rafale maximum speed is 1.8m with mica missiles only(withoout the heavier meteor) , with external fuel tanks and standoff weapons it will go below 0.9M wich is the reason UAE refuse to buy coz this weak engine will make it easy target to old 10 million dollar mig-29 or pantisr-s in addition to other factors like useless small antenna radar which is 50% smaller than SU-35 radar .

    2-su-35 fly without 3 big external fuel tanks , rafale have to do most of time and this have rcs and drag penalties which is not good in BVR and WVR

    3-rafale show its skill on abandoned old sa-3,s-200 radars and tanks and for your information they where always escorted by f-15 over liybya

    4-Rafale suffers from serious vibrations on standoff loads at high speed and and this why the reduce the numbers of blackshaheen that can be carried and this why UAE didnt buy it up to now in addition to other factors also it suffers from asymmetric load carrying capability

    have fun and see this even without load at 1:48

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
  14. yahya

    yahya 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    yawn guess sme guys hate eachother lol
     
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Rafale operational top speed is 1.8. Prototypes reached mach 2. Nothing to do with engine power, but design (ram coatings etc.)
    Cruising to LYbia...

    Rafale in Combat: ?War for Dummies?

    Once again, nothing to do with engine power, but subsonic loading. But tell me how 15T engines on a 10T fighter are "weak engines" please.

    At least, the small antenna radar is AESA, which should at least partially compensate antenna size difference. Now i have some questions :

    - Are you sure S35 will detect Rafale first considering the huge RCS difference?
    - Have you any idea of Spectra RWR capabilities?

    I suggest you to visit this topic (pros and cons) : Dassault Rafale #14 - News & Discussion - Page 20 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

    Where did you find this absolute BS info about F15 escorting Rafales over Lybia? A simple visit to Nato website and comparison of number of sorties will tell you...

    You may also want to visit rafalenews.blogspot.com , aswell as some others...

    Finally i'll cite a pilot in Lybia during the raid above Al Jufra airport, about Scalp release : "we only felt a slight pop"... Where do this so called info about vibrations issue come from?

    What incident? The Glimit ringing? For your info , during this demo, Cpt Brocard "Micka" was going above 10.5g
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
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