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why SU 35 would nt pose any serious security threat to india's RAFALE ,

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Radar isn't fighter's primary combat sensor any more, so PLAAF isn't at big loss there. I'd more worry about IRST, I doubt Russians sold them newest IRST types (OLS-35), and for now at least, Europe has a lead in that area.
     
  2. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    But metoer BVRAAM would be more deadly than MICA EM in that same situation thanks to more kinetic energy & would have been larger no escape zone
     
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  3. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Yes french sofradir indeed is a pioneer ,Russian can sell anything for money :lol:
     
  4. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    well
    the secret thing Spectra NG is going to have more range than RBE 2 aesa radar itself
     
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  5. WMD

    WMD Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    can't the IRST on rafale or su-35 detect the incoming BVRAAM and just out run it?
     
  6. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Yes, provided the IRST happens to be looking particularly in that direction when missile is fired so that it can
    detect the launch shock cone.

    but the Su35 will have verry little to no clue where it must point its nose as it does not know where Raffy is.
     
  7. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    This depends on wether Rafale uses radar and how good Su-35s RWRs are.
     
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  8. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    good question

    1) Meteor has very low smoke / smokeless ram jet engine so very less IR signature

    2) Meteor has More kinetic energy thanks to it's ramjet propulsion even if it is detected it would be too late for the target aircraft

    3)Metoer seeker is far better than Russian R 77 so less prone to ECCM from target aircraft
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    NEZ is more about an enemy fleeing than an enemy intruding. If we have front sector combat, we can do launch at max range and the time to interception will be very low, in a tail chase attack, you need a longburn missile and the time to intercept will be high. Also due to this high time to intercept, the enemy can easily take the risk to accelarate beyond 1.5M using A/B to escape. In BVR combat, you can extend the front sector around you to about 270* by turning towards the target and that is whr the ITR plays a major part. The NEZ is an egg shaped zone in which you can turn to point your nose to a point whr you can have max range for weapon release but, thr is very little that can be done when it comes to shooting an enemy fleeing from fight.
    Front aspect NEZ is nearly a constant value in BVR but tail chase NEZ can vary by big margins depending upon the launch speed of platform and the escape speed of target. It also will change based on altitude at which it is fired.
     
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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Meteor is supposed to have NEZ bigger than that of even AMRAAM-120D. But it is unfit for internal carriage due to very large fins. Hope they do something to make it fit for internal bay carriage by giving it folding fins
     
  11. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    To be frank the Article is not total BS but it very therotical.,
    Both planes Rafale or Su-35 have not been in action against planes that are comparable,
    Rafale had been in action in Libya and Mali (both without credible air defence)

    So all the info about effectiveness of SPECTRA and other things, are there but NOT PROVEN IN COMBAT.

    Now for some theoritical points, Rafale technology is older than Su-35 tech but as I said we cannot compare as they are theoritical.
    We are aware that IBRIS E radar has longer range but how effective it is, we do not know.

    Thanks for the article again, but frankly.. its just for propping up Rafale and Su-35 bashing.

    As per Russian marketing about Su-35 it is superior to Su-30 MKK (used by China) with new engine etc. and very much comparable to Su-30 MKI. But then if what they say is true and it has been know that Su-30 MKI can take down Rafale hands down, so by that comparison Su-35 can take down Rafale too, why that exception?
    That Su-30 MKI is better than Rafale but Su-35 which the Su company says is excellent in performance as as good as Su-30 MKI be inferior to Rafale..

    Also its nothing new, The West did underestimate the Russian missiles calling them thrash, but when Germany got the arms and equipment when they unified, their testing showed that AA-11 Archer is quite superior

    and quoting wiki
    " This proved to be a far more dangerous short-range attack weapon than had been known previously. It was clearly able to outperform all operational Western short-range IR tracking missiles - particularly in the ability to guide in high off-axis attacks, but also in terms of field of view, acquisition range, maneuverability, ease of target designation, and target lock-on.[citation needed] Concluding that they needed a missile with better performance than the Archer, "

    ASRAAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So till you do not actually pit the two planes, its all theoretical and does not hold water.
     
  12. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    ^^By the time the two planes actually meet in real war, neither you now me will be alive:smile:

    Somnathji may be alive, he has tricks up his sleeve.
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Russians always had better knowledge of aerodynamics and rockets w.r.t western powers. But their seeker knowledge is not as good. MICA has everything in it better and superior to R-73 & R-77. Meteor will outperform any missile of its class any whr in the world.

    Regarding Rafale & SU-35, one of the biggest aspects missed out by all members is the performance under Jamming. SU-35, due to its large RCS and size will have a longer Burn Thru Range when compared with Rafale as it show up inspite of using max jamming power. And that makes all the difference in combat in a Jamming envoirnment.
     
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  14. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    RCS matters with jamming too, but jamming is also active emission, so... no radars and no jamming is most likely scenario for future air combat.

    I doubt that actually, Su-30/35 don't have many advantages over Rafale except maybe as bomb trucks. Stronger radar, yes, but Rafale has better IRST.
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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