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why SU 35 would nt pose any serious security threat to india's RAFALE ,

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Thats the biggest nuisance

    becoz

    Explaining an illiterate can be easy but explaining an idiot is a nightmare
     
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  2. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    R 77 ramjet version is still in testing stages meanwhile Metoer is in advanced stages just waiting for operational clearance

    Meanwhile how do u know it has more G & more than one type of seeker infact it is still in testing stages
     
  3. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    R 27 ET is an extended range infra red homing missile not radar guided missile

    R 27 lacks manuveurabilty & it's seeker is much inferior to R 73 & ofcourse MICA
     
  4. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Funny thread
     
  5. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Btw, meteor was declared operational last days.
     
  6. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Okay... but its still a funny thread. The two will never be pitted against eachother in reality. Also... SU 35BM would probably have a better chance of winning even against a Typhoon or Gripen. So I hope no one thinks will be an easy take down. One of the reason I made a video about the SU 35 is because its not a bad performance aircraft, it has speed, range and large enough to have bigger stuff if anyone knows what I mean... part electronics, weapons etc.

    ???????????????? ??????? ?????????? «?????-?» ??? ??????????? ??-35
     
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  7. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Why not pair su30mki with rafale and have all R27, R77 and meteor as options. Add Astra to it and it will be too much for su35 to dodge against.
     
  8. AccessDenied

    AccessDenied Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I don't think anyone here would be foolish enough to think that it'd be easy to take down the SU-35 BM (Or at least I HOPE no one is):tongue1:; but it is not impossible either.

    In fact, the thread itself is a testimony to the fact how much it bothers us that China has acquired this baby. Also the fact that a Sukhoi official commented (as far as I remember) that 'Rafale wouldn't stand a chance against Chinese SU-35 BM', doesn't help. The only way Rafale and SU-35 BM might face each other in combat, is in case of an India-China conflict; in which case the Sukhoi official just rooted for China, the geo-political rival of their 'close strategic ally' India. He might have been blowing hot-air, but such statements contribute to negative PR. I think, if PAK-FA wasn't being developed, people here would be miffed about Russia.
     
  9. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Does anyone remember the technology demonstration videos Eurofighter, Irkutsk/KnAAPO, etc. have put out? If not, YouTube it. Typing from phone at the moment, so I don't have links with me. They were posted around this forum too, if I recall correctly.

    In the Eurofighter video, Typhoons are shown dominating Flankers at long range with Meteors that can out-manoeuvre them, and advanced data-sharing and so on. There's also one of a dog fight, underlining exactly why the Typhoon would win at close range against Flankers.

    The Russian videos (shown at MAKS 2011, IIRC) show the Su-35BMs shooting down aircraft that look remarkably like Typhoons at long ranges by defeating them electronically. Also demonstrated is the MiG-31 launching RVV-BDs at very long ranges and easily shooting down more Typhoon analogues.

    Lockheed-Martin videos show F-35s easily knocking out Flankers and even the odd Eurocanard (though that might've simply been a fanboy animation, I can't recall) at long range with a remarkably high hit ratio of BVR missiles, where it appears that the enemy aircraft's sensors are jammed before AMRAAMs finish them off.

    My point being, every manufacturer, designer, and nation will try to convince anyone listening that their aircraft is the absolute pinnacle of its generation, and will thoroughly dominate its competitors in any engagement at any range. It isn't surprising that Russia would suggest that the Rafale cannot hold a candle to the Su-35S/BM, in the same way that Indian reports from Red Flag show the MKI winning a large percentage of engagements against American forces and the American side of events depicting the opposite.

    PR should always be taken with a pinch of salt.
     
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  10. satya

    satya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Why is russia selling these aircrafts to china? They are well aware that chinese copy everything they get thier hands on.
    Besides this also harms india's interest which is already lagging numerically and technically to chinese fleet. Russia claims to be a strategic partner of india yet it doesn't think twice before selling its top end hardware to china, even PAKFA's joint development was offered to china first.
    I am confused
     
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  11. Firemaster

    Firemaster Captain STAR MEMBER

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    Me too :undecided:
     
  12. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    What you have described in bold is a bomber, not fighter, so saying that Su-35 will have exchange advantage against Typhoon or Gripen NG is fantasy.
     
  13. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Firstly, about the Indo-Russian partnership: The Russians don't equate a product sale as a betrayal of loyalty. Which, actually, they are right in. What should concern us more than aircraft being sold off to China is how vague Russia's foreign policy is, relating to our two nations.

    As far as selling to China goes, they need the money. In the UAC, as far as military production and design goes, Sukhoi are the only ones actually doing anything. Basically, Sukhoi and the civilian division of every other manufacturer is propping up the rest of the subsidiaries. Look at the sales Mikoyan have made in the past decade, or the contracts they've been awarded. Russia has a pretty ambitious modernisation plan for the next ten years, for which they need to wrangle money out of every avenue they possibly can.

    Following which, despite protests from UAC, it seems to be Russia's belief that China will not be able to reverse engineer components from the Su-35S/BM. They can construct Flankers, sure, but despite operating the type for about 15 years, they haven't been able to reverse-engineer the Al-31 engine yet. They haven't been able to copy the BARS radar yet. They claim that every electronic component on the J-11B and the J-15 is indigenously developed, with the exception of the engine (as their recent and large order of Al-31s demonstrates). And I sincerely doubt the Chinese web's claims of performance parity with similar Russian/western components, simply because they by and large refuse to release data to corroborate their assertion. Russia doesn't fear China's technological capacity as yet.

    So yes, money and confidence; that's why they're selling aircraft to China, despite all that China has done in the past with regards to their intellectual property. It should be noted that Su-35S/BM are being sold without even a partial technology transfer, unlike the Su-27/J-11 deal in the late '90s.
     
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  14. AccessDenied

    AccessDenied Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I did not know that.:hmm:

    Their confidence also answers why they apparently didn't care about the possibility of losing out on international arms sales to China. And for their sake and ours, I hope that their confidence doesn't turn out to be 'over-confidence; because China would carbon-copy SU-35 BM down to the last nut if it can. Regardless of ToT clauses.:hang2:
     
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  15. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes, probably because it hasn't been been directly stated.

    There have been reports that the deal has fallen through, but the last I read of it, the deal was being negotiated for 24 aircraft off the shelf, with a possibility for a further 24 in the future. Which means that there is no need to transfer any manufacturing technology to China. Seeing as it will also exclusively use Russian weapons, Russia will likely refuse a transfer of the radar source codes beyond what it takes to perform basic maintenance.


    With regards to what I wrote on Russia's confidence, here's a quote from an article on Defensenews.com:

    While some people are confident of the Su-35 remaining protected this way, both Mikoyan and Sukhoi (as well as other UAC subsidiaries) have complained in the past that allowing China to acquire components such as aircraft engines gives them a competitive edge on the global export scale. This was specifically a Mikoyan complaint against Russia authorising China to put RD-93s into the JF-17, which they believe can hurt MiG-29 sales.

    I'd rather the entire Su-35 deal just falls through, to be honest. Given China's history and their growing expertise with technology, giving them anything that could potentially give them an edge in any way, whether now or a couple of decades down the line, is just stupid. And all things considered, the Su-35 is significantly more advanced a platform than any Flanker before it, Su-30MKI included. Which is why India has been protesting this potential sale.
     
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