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why SU 35 would nt pose any serious security threat to india's RAFALE ,

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. ASHRAF

    ASHRAF FULL MEMBER

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    Yah probably , but i'am certain that i realize irony in your statements ......
     
  2. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Look, noone is saying S35 is a sludge.
    But S37 family is now 30 years old, whatever upgrades (and it was worlds best cell).
    It is still very powerful and capable fighters, but end of line.
    What i mean is for ex Rafale (i know it better then other air platforms) was developed with Mica/Meteor in mind, with RBE2 AESA in mind, with AASM in mind, with Spectra in mind...
    SU27 wasnt born with huge PESA/R77 etc in mind. They are powerful addons, Keeping it up to date, but not as coherent. And not with the same growth potential.
     
  3. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    ^^^R-77 was developed primarily for Flanker/Fulcrum/Foxhound. R-77 development was started because the Russians realised that their old R-27 was showing very poor results in tests conducted against MiG-23 flight target drones (which they estimated could accurately simulate early F-16 performance). Development was delayed because of the fall of the USSR. Same with the PESA radar, N011M BARS radar development began after Zaslon in early '80s, dropped when USSR collapsed, revived with Su-30 project.

    What T-10 family wasn't built for is reduced radar/IR signature. It will never be able to properly compete with Rafale on that front. And Russia is still playing catch-up on electronic warfare + radar.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    I don't think so, for several reasons. Once Russia has developed 2 Flanker types (Su 35 and 34) as multi role fighters, but specialised for A2A and A2G roles. The A2A role however will soon be take over by the early Pak Fas the Russian Air Force is planned to induct in 2015!
    This version will even incorporate some of the Su 35/34 techs like 117S engine, IRST, MAWS, SATCOM or cockpit displays. So with Pak Fa available and much more capable than Su 35 in A2A. The strike role in general, just like the maritime attack role will be taken over of the Su 34, which backs up the Pak Fa for second day strike roles, while any Flanker could back up Pak Fa in the A2A roles and interestingly RuAF recently inducted the first Su 30SMs and already added a follow order. The Su 30SM is the Russian version of our MKI, including BARS PESA, AL 31FP with TVC and canards, so fits perfectly between the Su 34 and Pak Fa, while this version is widely sold too, with spares and upgrades are secured for the next decades. Not to forget that there are still rumors about an order of Mig 35s, to keep Mikoyan alive as well.

    => All in all, there is no reason for RuAF to go for additional Su 35s anymore, when they have more operational benefits from Pak Fa, while covering a good ammount of the capabilities of the Su 35, with the Su 30SM and Mig 35 at lower costs?


    I don't see it as a thread either, too small numbers and with our MKIs beeing upgrades, not much advantages anyway. Although I hope that IAF can take this as a reason to get a more upgraded Rafale. :wink:
     
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  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    After A Decade Long Wait, China And Russia Ink 'Super Jet' Military Deal
    China finally gets her wish: 24 Sukhoi SU-35s from Russia, with love. And a warning: don't you dare try and reverse engineer this beast.

    A recent official visit to Moscow brought back some new souvenirs for the Chinese military.

    How about a reported 24 Sukhoi SU-35 fighter jets, and four submarines from Russia.

    China‘s new president Xi Jinping was in Russia this week to meet with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin. Both sides agreed to two arms-sale contracts in which China will buy Russian Sukhoi made fighter jets, Xinhua and Agence France Press reported on Monday.

    China has been itching to buy the planes since the 1990s and has been in hot pursuit since last March.

    Russia’s Interfax confirmed the existence and date of that agreement back in February, but didn’t speculate on sales numbers. This month, official talks trimmed the order down to 24 planes from an initial discussion of 48 Sukhoi Super Flankers. The Russians are said to have more confidence that China can’t copy their engines, and are also said to need the SU-35 orders because Russia’s Defense Department is ordering follow-on buys of new upgraded Sukhoi SU-35s instead.

    The deals raised concern among some regional defense players — namely India. China Central Television reported on Sunday that the purchase deals were signed before President Xi Jinping’s ever stepped foot into Russia. The military deal marks the first time in a decade that China had bought large military technological equipment from Russia, according to official television.

    Meanwhile, the four Lada-class diesel-electric submarines will be jointly designed and built by both countries, with two of them to be built in Russia and the other two in China.

    “The Su-35 fighters can effectively reduce pressure on China’s air defense before Chinese-made stealth fighters come online,” Xinhua reported. Li Hong, secretary-general of the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, said the recent purchases and joint building plan serve as an indicator of the evolution of the overall China-Russian strategic partnership.

    “It is the natural, well-deserved fruit of bilateral defense cooperation, and both sides have made it clear that the bilateral strategic partnership is not targeting anyone,” Li said.

    The Sukhoi SU-35 is a single seat super maneuverable, acrobatic fighter plane. Russia is the only Air Force to fly the SU-35. At altitude, its top speed is Mach 2.25 compared to Mach 2 for the U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon made jointly by General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin. The SU-35 is designed by Sukhoi and built together with Komsomolsk Aircraft Production Association, aka KnAPPO, Russia’s largest aircraft maker. Both are part of United Aircraft Corporation.
     
  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Rafale vs SU-35

    Think the SU35 is better, to me Russia selling the SU35 is screwing India big time.....at the present time the PAK FA remains a pig in a poke.
     
  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    As far as I know, Su-35 does not have canards right?
    but the image that they show that it has canards... so
     
  8. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Bro it doesn't have canards in Image too... :dude:
     
  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Many fancy numbers in this article... speed of rafale inaccurate (operational is 1.8 not 2), ange of meteor greatly underconned etc.
     
  10. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    About that MiG-35 order, I doubt it is any more significant than the 48 Su-35Ss the VVS will acquire.

    And yes, you see, this is what I was talking about earlier too: Su-30M/K types rule the market, while the Su-35S/GM has to take what it can get. I was very surprised when I read about the Su-30SM order, because apart from costs and a relatively good flight record in the hands of the IAF, I don't know why they would opt for a less capable aircraft. Your PAK FA logic here makes sense, but given maintenance costs, MTBOs, etc. it would've been more efficient to pick the Su-35BM in the long run. It is even built by the same contractor. I suppose it is possible that the VVS decided to supplant the initial order of 48 Su-35S/BMs with the Su-30SM in order to speed up induction.
     
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I don't think so: I think they have down the order to 24 because they just want to make retro-engineering.
     
  12. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    I checked my eyes after reading your post and I assure you that the Su-35 Flanker E shown there has Canards
    [​IMG]

    I think you just saw the picture on top and not the bottom. Maybe after that you can give me your views .. thanks
     
  13. G777

    G777 Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Isnt that the wrong Rafale aswell? ^^
     
  14. ASHRAF

    ASHRAF FULL MEMBER

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    su-35 basic design was with canards , later it was removed as new engine with tvc was adopted , but for both TVC and Canards can be it all depends on customer or operator
     
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I would think India would feel a cold cold wind blowing from Russia by now.
     
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