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Why The Demand For Gorkhaland Has Landed The BJP In A Hot Mess

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by zebra7, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Not sure what this has to do with Maharajas lmfao, but anyways, Religion: Never. Language & Culture: Absolutely.

    If you want legitimate cases, here are two, the splitting of the Bombay Presidency into Maharashtra and Gujarat. And in the modern day, though this hasn't happened yet, at some point they *have* to split UP into 4-5 parts.

    And the Gorkhas are doing this due to Cultural AND Linguistic differences as well , and that is absolutely fair.

    You're going on a completely different plank with the rant about politicians and what not. For them, EVERYTHING is a political matter and tool, and EVERYTHING can be and should be manipulated to somehow win them more votes. That doesn't automatically make every issue purely political or regressive. The two things are not mutually exclusive, there are some legitimate cases for splitting states or regions/territories, and regardless of whether they also turn into political proxy battles, they still remain legitimate issues.

    Defense is an issue during elections isn't it? The Military and its activities have been politicized by multiple parties haven't they? So does that automatically make Defense a regressive or purely political issue without substance? Isn't it still a legitimate concern or topic, IN SPITE of politicization?
     
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  2. Levina

    Levina Colonel on stilettos Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    I support tri-furcating Kashmir too.
    Ladakh faces a situation similar to that of "Gorkhaland". I support Gorkhas.
    But hey why should it be called Land and why not sthan or sthal???
     
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  3. turkish

    turkish Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Every Tom, Dick, and Harry would need to have a legitimate reason for a demand. People of Darjeeling are different. Darjeeling hills have different geography, culture, language and history which has nothing in common with people of Bengal. They cannot relate to West Bengal. BTW I am bengali myself. If you see the hurdles they need to face in West Bengal you wont be against it. Take for example Telangana which flourished after it separated. A homogeneous state is easy to manage administratively and culturally. People from Darjeeling ( Lepchas )needs a different state. And I am very sure they will get it.
     
  4. turkish

    turkish Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I agree! make sense if the name is different. Because you have to consider NJP also ( Siliguri & Galpaiguri) also.
     
  5. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Im done making my point. You can continue your stone-henge rant. I clearly stated im not against dividing states. But reasons of culture and language is regressive nonsense. It should be based on geography, administration and economics.
     
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  6. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    LMFAO. What a joke. This was your original point:

    And coincidentally, THAT is precisely what a rant looks like. So before you accuse someone of ranting, or call people "buggers who support imbecile activities" and "phony pawns," look up the meaning of the word "irony."
     
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  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Bro, You wouldn't understand greed. The basis of split was simply accent. In AP case it was pure one familiy's perseverance, The Doras who were suppliant to Nizam are now taking role of being the CM of Telangana,We suffered a lot during Partition and more until Indian Army came to relieve us, But this Bastard CM{Dora} wants to make Nizam as something good and ours, My Grandparents lived through and defended our homes during Razakars were doing what ISIS is doing right now Ours was the only colony Which protected and guarded our borders.Why am i so staunch Hindu right now is because of my Grandmother who, told us a lot and how they fought. Even though, i'm not a Bhramin, Colony we founded is still now called as Bhramin Basthi.
    Today people are questioning Yoga, Pratyahara(Sattvic foood) They will realize it later on,when their life is about to pass.:azn::(
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  8. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Identity politics: Gorkhaland is to Mamata what Kashmir is to Modi
    The agitation in West Bengal’s hill areas may actually end up benefitting the chief minister politically.

    [​IMG]

    Darjeeling has been in turmoil now for almost a fortnight. Since June 8, the tourist town in the hills of West Bengal has seen pitched battles between protestors and security forces, as the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha, the region’s largest Gorkha party, has revived its demand for a separate Nepali-speaking state. The region – dependent on tourism – has seen visitors flee and a near-total shutdown.

    With North Bengal’s economy hurt and the law and order situation in a shambles, the Indian Army had to be called in to help the state police. Conventionally, one might think this conflagration might end up harming the Trinamool Congress, which is in power in the state. Yet, ethnic politics in North Bengal is not that simple. In spite of the violence, the Gorkhaland agitation could, in fact, end up helping the Trinamool Congress politically, helping it to push its Bengali identity agenda further.

    Bengali identity


    Mamata Banerjee has, of late, used Bengali identity in order to counter the Bharatiya Janata Party’s deployment of Hindu nationalism as it makes inroads into West Bengal. The Trinamool has designed a state emblem and is composing a state song, apparently to assert Bengali culture and mark out the state as distinct from North India, according to a report in the Indian Express.

    The chief minister has attacked the BJP for trying to “import an alien culture” into West Bengal. “People here have been worshipping Lord Shiva, Goddess Durga and Kali and others for ages. Here is a party that wants us to worship a particular God,” she said, referring to the BJP’s efforts to organise massive Ram Navami marches. While the BJP has used the symbol of Ram effectively in North India, he is a little-worshipped god among Hindu Bengalis – a point that Banerjee was trying use to her advantage in stirring the pot of Bengali identity.

    Her most far reaching move, though, was making the study of Bengali compulsory in the state, mimicking the language nationalism of South India, where such laws have already been passed. It is this move that angered the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha in the state’s hill areas, leading to violent protests as Mamata Banerjee’s cabinet met in Darjeeling on June 8 (even though, by that time, Banerjee had announced that the Bengali rule would not apply to the hills). The Gorkha Janmukti Morcha complained that the state’s Nepali-speaking hill people were being swamped by Bengali politicians – the party even complained that Banerjee was celebrating Subhash Chandra Bose’s birth anniversary in Darjeeling.

    Gorkha-Bengali tensions


    This is not the first time Gorkha-Bengali ethnic tensions have acted as a catalyst for Gorkhaland. While the hills are dominated by Nepali-speaking Gorkhas, as the Himalayas give away to Dooars plains, the population fragments ethnically with large numbers of Bengalis and adivasis adding to the mix. In 2007, for example, Siliguri town, situated in the Dooars, saw Gorkha-Bengali riots. Most versions of a future Gorkhaland state, though, include this region, even though Gorkhas are a minority here.

    [​IMG]
    The Gorkha Jamukti Morcha's vision of Gorkhaland includes a great many districts in the Dooars and Terai where Gorkhas are a minority | Credit: Wiki Commons
    To add to that, across the state, the idea of dividing West Bengal is a politically charged idea that engenders much emotion. Since 1986 – when the first Gorkhaland movement broke out – the ruling Communist Party of India (Marxist) made sure to project themselves as the protector of West Bengal’s territorial integrity. In Siliguri, there were reports that the Communists was even sponsoring Bengali ethnic organisations such as Jana Chetana, in order to count the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha on the ground.

    Although the Communist Party of India (Marxist) lost power to the Trinamool in 2011, not much changed in the way Kolkata handled the Gorkhas. The Trinamool simply adopted most of the Communist Party of India (Marxist)’s positions on Gorkhaland, vowing to never let West Bengal be divided. In an overwhelmingly ethnically Bengali state, the demographic appeal of this stand is so great, that any party wishing to be a major electoral player in West Bengal will adopt it by default.

    Anti-partition sentiment

    This Bengali majoritarian sentiment also means that while the nationalmedia has been rather critical of Mamata Banerjee and her handling of the Gorkhaland issue, the press in Bengal, on the other hand, has lined up behind her. On Monday for example, the Bengali-language newspaper Aaj Kal started its report with this damning line: “The dance of death of Bimal Gurung’s forces has resulted in rivers of blood in Darjeeling. In the Uttar Banga Sambad, the Morcha was blamed for attempting to burn a car driver alive.

    Similarly, the state’s largest news channel, ABP Ananda, took the line that the Gorkha party was squarely to blame for violence, not bothering to spend too much time critiquing the government’s actions. The channel’s sister publication, the English-language Telegraph instead took the Union government to task. “The Centre’s contrasting responses to the unrests in Kashmir and Darjeeling had come under scrutiny with some security veterans spotting a double standard,” the Telegraph said. “The Centre had pledged to tackle the Kashmir stone-throwers with an iron hand but maintained silence on Darjeeling.”

    BJP in a bind

    If the Gorkhaland stir will help Banerjee shore up her position on Bengali identity, the BJP’s discomfiture is an added bonus. The BJP has long supported the creation of Gorkhaland – in 2009 senior party leader Sushma Swaraj spoke in the Lok Sabha in favour of carving out a Nepali-speaking state from West Bengal, loftily calling it “an idea whose time has come”. In its manifesto for the 2014 Lok Sabha election, the BJP said it would “sympathetically examine and appropriately consider the long-pending demands of the Gorkhas” if it came to power. This support for Gorkhaland helped the BJP, with Darjeeling electing a BJP Lok Sabha MP since 2009 – a result made possible due to an alliance with the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha.

    Yet, the BJP’s stand has come back to bite it in 2017. In Darjeeling, its district unit has supported the demand for Gorkhaland even as the West Bengal unit has said that its alliance with the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha was purely electoral and that they do not endorse the demand for Gorkha statehood. With the BJP making a committed bid to become the main opposition in West Bengal, any pro-Gorkhaland stance could harm its electoral chances significantly. As a result, the BJP has fallen behind the Trinamool in rejecting Gorkhaland, with the Modi government repeatedly honouring her requests for Army and paramilitary forces to quell the protests. Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh has even gently chided the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha for the violence, suggesting that it enter into talks instead. The BJP’s stand has angered the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha, who now accuse the Union government of treating it like “pawns”.

    Bengal’s Kashmir

    On Monday, West Bengal BJP chief accused the Trinamool of playing ethnic politics. “In the hills, a Nepali-Bengali fight will strengthen the Trinamool in north Bengal, is what Mamata Banerjee thinks,” said Ghosh. “The Trinamool is trying to bring Bengali voters of all parties under its flag. This is why Darjeeling is burning”.

    Ghosh is mostly correct here. In effect, Gorkhaland is to Chief Minister Banerjee what Kashmir is to Prime Minister Modi: an issue of great emotional sentiment for a majority of the electorate that provides a fertile ground for the politics of identity. While Modi uses Kashmir to consolidate a Hindu nationalist identity, Banerjee’s stand against Gorkhaland will help her consolidate her Bengali nationalism pitch – which in turn will help her fight the BJP’s progress into Bengal using Hindutva.


    source https://scroll.in/article/841225/identity-politics-gorkhaland-is-to-mamata-what-kashmir-is-to-modi
     
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  9. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Problem for the BJP for supporting the Gorkhaland, because its evidence BJP wants to increase their influence in WB, and Mamta is using Bangla sentiment just like BJP is using Hindutva. Supporting Gurkhaland will only help Mamta, and the Press and Media of Bengal is supporting Mamta.
     
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  10. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    And what is the population of Lepchas ??
     
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  11. Pushyamitra

    Pushyamitra IDF NewBie

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    Bhai,


    As a Half gujarati i want to say something...
    Gujaratis are united today only due to politics and brand value. Still you can see many people supporting Idea of separating Saurashtra state again from gujrat and Kutchh movement is already there.

    Here are the differences between gujarati and Kathi.

    1) Saurashtra was historically used to speak a language based on sindhi with large ammount of native lonewords.

    2) majority of Saurashtra people have 33% to 44% West Asian blood.

    3) atleast 50 to 60% people are direct migrants from the sindh and marvar such as all the maldharis who form 50% population of That region. You can still see that they look very central Asian influanced.

    4) region is dominated by rajputs, unlike rajasthan where rajputs are just 10% total population. Rajputs in saurashtra are 20% and if you add mhers(marwaris), kathis(Scythians from sindh) and some pitty clans like Brahma khatris (from punjab or balochistan) rajput population goes to 30%+.

    And even in rajputs Major clans like Jadeja,jethwa,gohil,zala,solankis all migrated from sindh and Rajasthan.

    4) due to high martial culture of Maldharis, Bharwads and Kshatriya tribes who makes 80% population fo the region, saurashtra is Martial land unlike gujarat (its also called Kathiyawar, land of rajputs).

    5) our cloths are different,food is different, castes are different and even somewhat language is different.

    Gujaratis use che while we use "se", due to heavy Marwari influance. Avarage kathi from village can easily read and translate written sindhi while same is not possible for a gujarati.

    So its, like saying both Kashmir and Central UP are one entitity as both speaks same language, URDU.

    For more please read these answers.
    https://www.quora.com/How-do-Gujarati-and-Kathiyawari-people-differ-from-each-other
     
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  12. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I give a big flying fcuk to your divisive and archaic thoughts. I am indian and everyone is the same to me. Gorkha or Lepcha or hindu muslim Christian whatever. For me, no division should be made on religious and cultural differences. Period. That's what I was taught as a kid and it remains to this day.
     
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  13. turkish

    turkish Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    See you make these claims without justifying your comments. What is taught to you as a kid is not necessarily needs to be true. You accuse other to be imbecile and naive but you have no problem using vulgarity in place rationale ! If there is no division on the grounds of cultural difference. Delhi and Karnataka can be merged ( i know both the state are in the opposite side of the spectrum) but that not possible is it?. Either Delhites will lose their identity or the good people of Karnataka will lose theirs. When two places are culturally different one of the group is bound to get subjugated by the other. Moreover, people from Darjeeling hills have done a lot for India like other states and needs a identify of their own to flourish. Just see Jharkhand, & Telangana they are doing well. A homogeneous society brings peace and prosper.
     
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  14. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Divison of state does not means division of country rather division of political, administrative, financial power. Decentralization of power is the core value of our democracy.

    We have an example of uttrakhand, which got separated, since the politician of lucknow, fails to understand the problems of the hill and many would like the division of UP into 4 parts including me. Why ? Because max money generated from noida, ghaziabad, got BANDERBAAT in lucknow, which don't have anything other than stone covered bheem park, where your legs will burn in summer, and huge marble monument of mayawati, who didn't feel any shame in putting MALA on her own statue. Phycological investigation will reveal easily that the CM of UP don't feel less than Queen Victoria.
     
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  15. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    They can have all the desires they want, but there's really not much of a case to be made for either one, especially Saurashtra. Kutchi, though similar to Sindhi and Gujarati, may yet claim to be a different language; but the language Saurashtra speaks is nothing more than a dialect of Gujarati, and the cultures are similar enough to maintain a single state. So I don't see Gujarat ever being divided, and that makes sense.

    The analogy of Kashmir and UP also seems incredibly far fetched to me; Hindi is widely spread across North India and even then the Hindi spoken in UP is worlds apart from the Urdu spoken in Kashmir, that is not a simple difference of dialect within the same specific language. This analogy also discounts the fact that a lot of Kashmiris speak Kashmiri. And regarding the statistics on the difference in bloodline of Kathiyawadis vs other Gujaratis and percentages of Rajputs, I'd take those figures with a grain of salt, because I'm not fully sure how reliable Quora is, without more specific sources.

    So while you are right that Kutch and Saurashtra are unique in their own ways, and some may even want them to become states, there is simply no strong enough case to be made for either one. And because Pakistan got Sindh in 1947 and a large chunk of Hindu Sindhis ended up in Gujarat, this means that the 3 closely related groups: Sindhis, Kutchis, and Gujaratis are all living in the same state in India, and that is a perfectly reasonable solution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017

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