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Will India develop its own light tank to counter China Xingingtan for High altitude warfare? Options

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by LonewolfSandeep, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That's kind of dumb though, don't you think? LCH's and Rudra's are adequate for Pakistan. A game changer like the Apache, that too ordered in small numbers, is best reserved for an opponent like China.
     
  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    LCH and Rudra will be present in far greater numbers than the Apache and are also highly optimised to flying at high altitudes. Given the commonality between the Rudra/LCH and the ALH it would be easier to maintain the Rudra/LCH/ALH at the same airbases whereas the Apache would need its own dedicated and specialised logistics and logistics in the East are particuarly strained.

    Besides the Apache can carry heavier loads and thus will be a more effective tank buster (able to carry 2x the number of ATGMs) in the plains in the West where the pakistani will throw all they have at India. The armoured threat to the East isn't as great with the PLA having limited ability to operate any heavy armour against India and thus using the LCH/Rudra is more than logical in that sector.
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Apaches will be mainly/entirely focused against the Western borders. LCHs & Rudras will be enough for the East.
     
  4. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    In which case no need for light tanks or ICVs. Close this thread unless you want to get toys for your kids.:troll:
     
  5. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Even if we produce large quantity Rudras and LCH for East sector - lets not forget currently China has atleast 15:1 numerical advantage in Attack helicopter. We can at best reduce the overwhelming China advantage.
    Armour plays a crucial role, thats why Indian army post Doklam incident have come up with urgent requirement to upgrade 693 BMP2 to BMP2M lvls.
    [​IMG]
    Since engine performance degrades by 25% in High altitude like Ladakh, etc T72 engine be grossly slow & underpowered for high altitude warfare, while china dont have this problem. Hence it is recognised the need to upgrade Engine to 1000HP to T72 new life in high altitude & probably be done when finances are approved.
    Problem of Role too as mentioned by @randomradio
    Hence need exist to counter possible Chinese advantage of light armour - past wars in world in high altitude have been significantly decided by Light armour & Attack helicopters (both areas need to be caught up, as only when we are strong to hurt adversary will it stop trying to take punga)
    A battle with light tanks only can be resolved by manportable ATGM to a large extent, but a battle with light tanks/armour with attack helicopter support, is whole different ballgame.
    Hence urgent need for NAMICA getting into service in large numbers. Great news was it had solved it IR problem too (for peak summer Rajasthan sand ambient heat vs target identification - so its closer to a finished product soon)
    Who knows even 8x8 Kestral with Prospina missile, since need to tackle both tanks & helicopter, just like chinese Tank & Helicopters have capability to target both Armour & Helicopter by either.

    ---Till 693 BPM2 are converted to BMP2M lvls
    ---Till T72 get an upgraded 1000Hp engine
    ---Till we dont close Attack helicopter numbers gap with china (maybe 1/2 or 1/4)
    ---Till we dont have light armour like NAMICA or 8x8 Kestral with Prospina missile to tackle both helicopters & light armour, which can be Air lifted as well.
    Till above dont happen, China having high offence capability, and we only defence (nothing for china to lose to stop adventurism & keep chipping away land in border from India, which it is doing) China will keep testing & pushing India. Only Strength keep Enemy at bays.

    http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/xyUkjwK2Ic6pHpon5FsEVI/Countering-Chinas-land-grab.html
    Thats 2000 sq km lost in last 10 years only.. Lets not go overly nationalist ga ga beating our own trumpet. We have severe decencies to overcome still.
     
  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    The gap is already closing (2 SQNs of Rudra will be raised by IA by end of 2017 in the North East) and by 2025 the gap will be closed significantly to 4:1 or 3:1 but the quality of the Indian attack helos will be far higher.

    Granted but you have not factored in fixed wing airpower into this equation, currently (and for the forseeable future) India holds the advantadge in that area along the LAC.
     
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  7. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Bro will agree with all your assertions, once we stop losing 200 Sq Km per year on average to PLA
    Capability gap exists, lets fix them, all is not well.
    But all can be well in future - creating a outlook of denial dont work..
     
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  8. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @LonewolfSandeep ,@Abingdonboy @Gessler
    Any update on acquisition of Spike ATGM, have we ordered these or are we waiting for NAG & Prospina ? As spike ATGMs will really come in handy and will take care of PLAs armored divisions.
     
  9. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    http://idrw.org/israels-rafael-defe...manufacture-missiles-for-indian-armed-forces/
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/K...ti-Tank-Guided-Missiles-To-Indian-Army-263538
    -Rafael (Spike) & kalyani group just started a manufacturing plant for Spike in hydrabad for India & south east asia with 90% localised parts, with 51% kalyani ownership in project.
    -But yes Prospina has the capability to exceed Spike in very near future, as it has a very sophisticated fire & forget India developed IR seeker (earlier had some problems in hot day environment which are resolved)
    -Nag & Prospina are one & same - Prospina is Nag advanced version name
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    India is getting better and bettwe at R&D but it is constantly failing to translate this into large scale inductions by the users, from small arms to fighter a/c, production is now the bottleneck and not the development side.

    India needs to massively enhance its industrial base and set more ambitious targets.
     
  11. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Abingdonboy

    Yes i totally agree with you, about time we privatize OFBs and other DPSUs or at least make them more accountable. But it is good to see that production of OFBs have gone up by around 28% in the last 3 Yrs.
     
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  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Forget about OFBs, private sector should be allowed to compete with them on a level footing that way OFBs will either perform or perish (I would prefer the former of course). Much of the OFB's failures are because it is operating as a monopoly.

    I don't think privatising OFBs will be the silver bullet, I favour increased competition.
     
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  13. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Abingdonboy

    Yup you nailed it Bro......exactly my thoughts.:tup:
     
  14. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Actually we are on the path of obliterating them with 200 LCHs and Rudras each for IA's aviation. The Apaches will the icing on the cake. With our ALGs offering greater payload ratios these helos will change our offensive game at the LAC and beyond. Disagree on tanks. T 72s versus PLA junk aka Type 96A medium tanks. T 72 clear and over-matched winner.
     
  15. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Would love to see the BMPT Terminator 2 turret on T-72 body. It is one beast of a fighting platform for offensive and defensive maneuvers. Or we could use the BMPT turret on BMP Chasis. [​IMG]
     

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